Ethynol in Petrol? How do you cope?

[MHSILVERW]

Hi,

Apart from probably spelling, here in the UK we appear to be getting lead free petrol with greater quantities of 'ethynol' in than in the past. I think at the moment in Europe there is a general limit of 5% ethynol but gather it's going to increase to 10% over the next few years.

In a number of 'historic' vehicle clubs there seems to be concerns or problems of the 5% type fuel (which I guess will increase as the fuel changes to 10%) with some running problems and ethynol affecting steel components - fuel tanks, fuel lines in metal/rubber/copper parts, float bowls and carb parts and in some vehicles 'sludge' or 'age old sediments' being loossened and then gumming up fuel lines; some reports of fuel and water problems with ethynol absorbing water that then rusts tanks etc --- all very gloomy stuff for those with a desire and love of 'older' vehicles.

Years ag we had the loss of 'lead' in fuel and the effects on valves and valve seats - that seems like 'small beer' to these problems - at least the valve seats and valves could be replaced.

I know some AMAL carbs have new 'resistent' float bowls....or these can be retro fitted - so thats one small part of the fuel chain - but not heard about suchlike for bings and beemers.....


I gather some riders of bikes like later Norton Commandos or Royal Enfield GT bikes that had original (and now some replacement-remanufactured) 'fibreglass tanks' have had problems with these disintegrating so throwing fuel all over a hot engine... Some clubs / specialists are concerned worse things, like 'fibreglass resin/bits' gumming up and even sticking open fuel flow which desn't bear thinking about

I am guessing that the older beemers - classic and vintage will not escape the affects of these 'fuel brews' so I wondered how are or do you cope with this away from the UK/Europe?

Cheers

Mark

[Darryl.Richman]

Here in California, we've been running 10% ethanol for a decade. In some places in the US Midwest -- corn country -- you can buy E85 fuel (yes, 85% ethanol), but that's not for our vehicles, it only works in the so-called Flexi-fuel vehicles that have been available here for the last 8 or 10 years (and were a dodge the manufacturers used to game the US EPA fleet mileage requirements on auto manufacturers).

Ethanol can be bad for plastics and rubber, and that includes fiberglass. Bing makes ethanol-proof floats for the 1970-on 2 valve boxers, but I have read reports that they really aren't any better than the original foam floats.

Ethanol also is hydrophilic -- it will pull water out of the air. Ethanol and other alcohols are used in as fuel stabilizers, for use in stored vehicles, because they will mix with water and hold it in suspension with the gasoline. Although water and gas don't mix, ethanol will mix with either, and to a limited extent, both. So, you fill your tank, add the fuel stabilizer, run it just until it has passed into the entire fuel system, and then you store the vehicle for the winter.

The problem with ethanol in this regard is that it also evaporates out of the gasoline fairly quickly. So E10 gas can get "stale" in a matter of a few weeks. If the ethanol had pulled water out of the air and was holding it in solution with the gasoline, the water will then separate out and sink to the bottom, where it will go to work oxidizing the steel.

The trick to all this is preventing the ethanol from evaporating. The air space in the tank can breathe through the tank vent and any evaporated alcohol can escape into the atmosphere. But with a full tank, there's no air space over the fuel for the ethanol to evaporate into. If there's almost no air space, the rate at which the ethanol evaporates and breathes out is greatly reduced. Therefore, the way to do this is to keep the gas tank FULL when in storage.

[schrader7032]

I've not noticed any issues with running ethanol fuels here in the US. I've had my R69S overhauled to included lead-free valve seats...the other two bikes are original top ends meant for leaded fuel. I will convert them to lead-free at some point just because...

But the ethanol doesn't seem to be a big concern to me.

[doublejj]

I live in Iowa where the temps can get to below 20 deg F in winter. I run Gasahol whitch is 10% ethanol. I have had no troubles except for the floats in past, (they seem to take on an invisible weight so the bowls overflow or don't get enough in em.) Current floats working fine two years now. I've had to replace the rubber lines, but could of been age too and not gas..I haven't ever used any fuel stabilizer either. I don't know, count me lucky, ignorant or what, I don't know. I do make sure tank is filled to the brim though before she's tucked away. Starts after storage every year 1st or 2nd kick. Being doing that for as long as I can remember.

Ethanol doesn't seem to be a big concern to me, either.

[R.D.Green]

Personally, I've not experienced any ethanol-related problems (yet) but I have a good friend who runs a small bike shop and he says he has seen plenty - - tank liners, carb problems, and the like. The stuff is absolutely death on fibreglass from what I hear. A local collector hereabouts will not even keep fuel in his fibreglass tank Ducati 750SS at all. If he wants to ride the bike, he will add some fresh fuel to the tank and then drain it out when he's done. I try to keep tanks full at all times more or less and have taken to using "Seafoam" as an additive religiously. Any other experience with, or recommendations for, fuel additives?