If you like our site, please consider joining our club!
By joining you will help ensure that we can continue to provide this service
JOIN HERE!

R60/2 best place to source a centrifugal advance unit

User avatar
schrader7032
Posts: 9072
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Location: San Antonio, TX
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: R60/2 best place to source a centrifugal advance unit

Post by schrader7032 »

Slash2 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:12 pm
I think this whole differential timing mumbo jumbo is for the most part, a great big nothing burger.
Why do you say that? Ideally, each cylinder should fire at the same point in rotation. If they don't you will have uneven power pulses which can be felt in rough running and can result in pulses that can affect the lower end bearings. If the differences is enough that one cylinder is firing after the full advance point, detonation can occur and in extreme situations pistons can be holed. R69S engines are very prone to pinging if firing after full advance. As mentioned, differential timing can result in elevated temperatures in the combustion chamber.

Sure, the bike can survive but at what cost? I don't think the issue is "nothing" but some worth looking into. YMMV.
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2
Fast. Neat. Average. Friendly. Good. Good.

User avatar
vechorik1373
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: R60/2 best place to source a centrifugal advance unit

Post by vechorik1373 »

Slash2 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:12 pm
I think this whole differential timing mumbo jumbo is for the most part, a great big nothing burger.
I strongly disagree. I order to make the engine run perfectly with little or NO vibration, you must have 3 degrees or less differential timing.
If you have a lot more, you will wonder why you cannot balance and synchronize the carbs. The reason being, when you pull a plug wire, to set the idle air mix, it will run on one side (that is the cylinder that has the advanced timing) and it will die on the other side (the one with retarded timing) every time the other wire is pulled. So, on the cylinder that won't run, you'll attempt to set the mix by speeding up that cylinder, by raising the slide, until it will run. Then you'll mess with the idle mix, and in most cases, you'll wonder why the carb will not respond to idle air mix changes. The reason it won't, is because you raised the slide enough that it begins to run off the main jet. So when both plug wires are attached, it will run fast, and vibrate, and slowly opening the throttle to check sync you will discover one appears to be opening before the other, and will adjust the cables to compensate. Yet it will always have vibration and never be "perfectly" smooth.

Another symptom of differential timing, that you can notice just at a glance, is that one header pipe, will be MUCH bluer (the one that is more advanced that is doing all the work, the other is following along) than the other.

If there is NO differential timing, BOTH cyls will run one at a time, with the opposite plug wire pulled, (as it should) and the idle air mix can be properly set, AND then carbs can be synchronized to open both slides at exactly the same time.
And you will be amazed at how little vibration the bike will have at any speed. And how much more power it develops! Eventually, both header pipes will then develop the same color, and the same length of the blue color, down each pipe.
Vech
Technical Adviser, Former owner, Bench Mark Works
662 312 2838 cell 9 am to 4pm CST PLEASE!

fossilfuel
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 9:13 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: R60/2 best place to source a centrifugal advance unit

Post by fossilfuel »

OP here...

Thanks for all the input. I think my problem is solved!

I installed a Pentacom II points plate from FlyingTeaPot (FTP) THANK YOU CARL!

It is great, not sure why I waited so long and spent HOURS trying to time the original point set up!

I pulled my advance unit-- it was in very nice shape with negligible visible wear. I took it apart and cleaned/greased it. (see pic...before cleaning)

I pulled the mag rotor and cleaned the cam shaft end and female surface of the rotor.

I installed a new Emerald Island coil and 0 ohm resistance cables and spark plug caps.

Bike was dry of gas after carb cleaning as part of all this. Also, I added some fresh ethanol free gas to the tank.

I put it all together last night and it static timed with no differential timing (S line with advance weights in and F line with the little wire trick holding the weights out). I think just pulling, cleaning the surfaces and re-setting the mag rotor sorted the differential timing.

Tickled her a bit and she started on 4th kick! I will take a timing light to her today and then dial in the carbs a bit more. But I am thrilled! I love the Pentacom Plate!

I am excited to get her on the road :-)

-mark in austin.
Attachments
IMG_8931.jpeg
IMG_9020.jpeg
IMG_9022.jpeg

User avatar
Slash2
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:22 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: R60/2 best place to source a centrifugal advance unit

Post by Slash2 »

My experience is that every bike I’ve seen with “differential timing” sending its owner into fits of anxiety and fear shows a few mere degrees at most. If your bike is off by a mile then of course it should be addressed but I’ve never seen more than 3 or 4 degrees. I can’t imagine how an advance lobe would develop such extremely uneven wear but I should admit I’ve never seen a bike with 100’s of thousands of miles on the clock.

I’d be more concerned about the end play of your flywheel when it comes to a smooth running bike.
Western Pennsylvanian - Airhead Extraordinaire

flyingtpot
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: R60/2 best place to source a centrifugal advance unit

Post by flyingtpot »

fossilfuel wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:08 pm
OP here...

Thanks for all the input. I think my problem is solved!

I installed a Pentacom II points plate from FlyingTeaPot (FTP) THANK YOU CARL!

-mark in austin.

Thanks Mark!!

Post Reply