Denfeld vs Pagusa?

[Slash2]

I'm in the market for a new solo and have explored the options currently available from a few German suppliers. They offer both the Denfeld and Pagusa options and while both appear to be practically identical, the Denfeld is slightly more expensive. My supplier of choice offers both and oddly the cheaper Pagusa option includes all SS mounting hardware, whereas the Denfeld does not. The frames, spring block, etc are all identical. The only minor variation is in the rubber top. I've seen both in person. The Pagusa (at least) appears slightly more substantial, so I'm curious if anyone can shed any light on these differences and a good reason to go with one or the other?

My only guess when it comes to the price difference is that the Denfeld is more popular and therefore commands a slightly higher price. The label on the Pagusa is more "artistic" and I'd argue more attractive, but the Denfeld name is more ubiquitous in the domestic /2 crowd. I realize many of you may think I've ventured a bit far into the weeds here, but I'm curious and hope someone else may be able to clarify.

The Pagusa is priced at $212.90 Euros complete.
The Denfeld is priced at $223.23 Euros w/out mounting hardware.

[schrader7032]

The two seats were offered for all BMWs after the war. BMW made sure there were multiple suppliers during production to ensure they had the parts for the bikes going out the door.

That said, my limited experience is that Denfeld was seen more during the "/2" era but the Pagusa seemed to be used in the plunger ear. My 1952 R25/2 came with a Pagusa seat and when it split (after 70 years!!) I replaced it with another Pagusa.

So, it comes down to what you want!

[Slash2]

Thanks Kurt,

I've heard similar explanations in the past. What would be great to know is if there were years, models, etc that came with one or the other? I'm sourcing a solo for a friend's 1955 R69 for example and would like to know which would be considered "correct."

I'm also sourcing several for mid 60's bikes so from your explanation, it sounds like those should get Denfeld solos.

[schrader7032]

I think I remember from Roland Slabon's book is that either was "correct". BMW archives can provide on a bike from their records but usually it just says "with a bench seat" or "with a solo seat"...nothing specific as to who made the seat.

[TaosTwinCam]

Slash2: Pagusas were used on plunger bikes. There is also a pre-war version with script lettering. Denfelds were used on Earles fork bikes. Period. They were not "mixed up" Todd

[Flx48]

Hi Chris-
Agree with Kurt; when the Earles bikes became no longer current, it was the rage to pull off the bench seats as supplied with the B&S import bikes and replace with solo saddles as seen in the manuals and on the European domestic market, bench seats were an option and more money, so not as prevalent in the Euro market.

I brought Denfelds home when visiting Peter Ondrak (he used to advertise in our magazine back then) at his shop out on the ring road in Munich in maybe 1980, and that is what he said and what I saw there; Denfelds on the Earles and Pagusas on the plungers.

These days I much prefer the bench if riding all day, for the ability to move my butt around, just like I now prefer the small standard tank for the frequent pit stops. (you know the old mantra for guys in their seventies- Never pass up a rest room/Never waste a hard-on/Never trust a fart...)

I'm only a single reference point, but my recollection through the years is the Pagusa seats were prone to earlier rotting than the Denfelds, much like the current pushrod tube, footpeg, etc, rubber bits available.
Best-
George

[vechorik1373]

My understanding is, (I could be wrong, I never worked for Butler & Smith) that all the 1955 - 1969 bikes exported to the USA came with (ugly, in my opinion) bench seats. Solo seats were offered as an accessory by Butler & Smith, but they were Denfeld seats, not Pagusa. In Europe, the bikes were sold with Pagusa solo seats.

All the plunger frame bikes were that were exported to the USA had Pagusa saddles.

[R68]

I think the PAtent GUmmi SAttle is a little bit better quality, thicker rubber than the Denfeld? A 1955 R69 would likely have used an "SFS" rubber brought to us by Seigen Franke Seigen, but these are no longer reproduced or available. As the other folks have mentioned, plungers get Pagusa, most swingarm twin get Denfeld?
Gee, talk about going out into the weeds!

[Daves79x]

R68 has it correct for the '55s. If you got a solo seat on a '55 from the factory (not B&S), which would be bikes for the rest of the world, you got the no-logo seat with the spring instead of the rubber block.

Dave

[vechorik1373]

The R68 is an open driveshaft, plunger frame bike. ALL plunger frame bikes used a chrome extension spring for seat suspension. NONE used the rubber seat spring that the later Earles fork bikes used.