Odd 36 spoke hub on a Palmer Jointless.... anyone with clue?

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:20 pm

and an up close peek at some really nice Zundapp wheels........ I know this stuff isn't BMW but it's kin. Very unusual in the way it is made, especially the wheel bearings

niall4473 · Post by **niall4473** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:52 am

Hi EuroIron,
What diameter is the brake drum on your mystery hub? Any markings?
It looks to me to be the front wheel off a 1948-70 Velocette MSS or MAC, WM2-19 would go along with that. The V notch spoke slots on the flange side are very distinctive.
I'm pretty sure thats what it is .

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:06 am

been a while since I measured it but it is smallish, around 7 inches best I recall as I've had it for 5 or 6 years

I was thinking it was Kraut because of the 36 spoke count and I admit I have not put a thread pitch gauge on those fine threads to see if they are metric or otherwise

I guess I will today but wouldn't a Brit wheel typically be 40 spoke?

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:07 pm

haven't found a really good pic of the velo hub or even one really good enough to accurately count the spokes, but the post war ones do look 40 spoke-ish

I am going to measure again, thinking the drum may be closer to 6 inches and I'll see if the threads are metric or otherwise

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:32 pm

ok, those threads are metric having 1.25 pitch

bearing bores certainly appear to be 51mm but it is dirty and I just did a quickie caliper measure

the somewhat irregularly worn drum is in this zone

6.98 inches = 177.29200 millimeters

and the roof repairs at the shop were successful

seems like I was thinking this was some obscure DKW/NSU or other type wheel but it sure does almost look and smell Brit

just don't think it is with the metric threads and 36 count spokes but I've been wrong many times before

the bearing bore could almost do a 2 inch OD bearing and I guess I'll clean it better later today

I was kinda hanging onto it thinking it would look right on my 35 sport scout girder and I found a trick little Italian DLS backing plate that could call that hub home with just a hour or so on the lathe

be nice to know what it was

niall4473 · Post by **niall4473** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:30 pm

Hi EuroIron ,

Take a look at these, its a Velo wheel.

[img][img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb72 ... hub023.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb72 ... ub2026.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb72 ... cov024.jpg[/img][/img]

The 'A' column refers the the spring frame MSS 1954-71. Yes you're right, 36 spoke wheels are rare on Britbikes, but so are most of the other things Veloce did. Check those threads again, look for BSF and CEI. 1.25mm is very close to 3/64".
Now sleep soundly.
Cheers,
Niall

niall4473 · Post by **niall4473** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:43 pm

And just to be insufferable, heres my Venom, which also has a 36 spoker up front....

[img][img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb72 ... /velo6.jpg[/img][/img]

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:22 pm

I'll see if it is BSF or some other odd variant as I am sure whatever it is could be close enough to metric........ I'll dig out that pitch gauge but the problem is it is about impossible to confirm the thread angle is 55 or 60 degrees....... but I guess I could get out the loupe and some 55 and 60 degree single point thread cutters and look closely

It sure looks like the Velo hub but counting the holes on the large flange appears to me to be 40 hole........ what do you think?

do you have a pic of the small flange side? I'd be 100% certain if it showed accommodations for 18 on that side and nine big holes

even a square on of the big side showing 18 holes would do it for me

the Velo ones I've seen that look just like this all had the 10 big holes

but it does look rather convincing

I'm digging for the Kraut stuff I've seen that also looks just like this one

Thanks a lot for you help

If it is Velo, I'll relinquish my grip on it and get it to somebody that can use it since it is plenty easy enough to find cool stuff that is common for such a planned possible abortion

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:23 pm

I'll see if it is BSF or some other odd variant as I am sure whatever it is could be close enough to metric........ I'll dig out that pitch gauge but the problem is it is about impossible to confirm the thread angle is 55 or 60 degrees....... but I guess I could get out the loupe and some 55 and 60 degree single point thread cutters and look closely

It sure looks like the Velo hub but counting the holes on the large flange appears to me to be 40 hole........ what do you think?

do you have a pic of the small flange side? I'd be 100% certain if it showed accommodations for 18 on that side and nine big holes

even a square on of the big side showing 18 holes would do it for me

the Velo ones I've seen that look just like this all had the 10 big holes

but it does look rather convincing

I'm digging for the Kraut stuff I've seen that also looks just like this one

Thanks a lot for you help

If it is Velo, I'll relinquish my grip on it and get it to somebody that can use it since it is plenty easy enough to find cool stuff that is common for such a planned possible abortion

niall4473 · Post by **niall4473** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:34 pm

The rear hubs have 10 holes and 40 spokes, the front ones have 9 holes and 36 spokes.

[img][img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb72 ... 2027-1.jpg[/img][/img]

Taken from 'Velocette; a Development History of the MSS, Venom, Viper, Thruxton and Scrambler Models' by Rod Burris

[img][img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb72 ... ub2028.jpg[/img][/img]