Avonaire Fairing for /2

[EuroIron]

that is the kind of stuff I really dislike

in my world I see this as JC Whitney'ing a highly sought fairing onto world class machine

my feather bed bikes with thin wall tubing have been drilled, holes filled with threaded or counter-bored bungs......... and welded back for mounting of many items

tabs are much easier

the purists when convenient types seem to think it's blasphemy but it's a lot easier to "fix" and make appear as though it never happened than collapsed and indented tubing

I won't use "p" type clamps or "u bolts" on any of my motorcycles

just simply don't like them and they do tend to move about

besides...... those extensive mounts .......... simply because of their pre-requisite bolt up limitation.......... are far from direct and as robust as
many simpler and stronger methods could be

[Allan.Atherton]

... that is the kind of stuff I really dislike... in my world I see this as JC Whitney'ing a highly sought fairing onto world class machine... I won't use "p" type clamps or "u bolts" on any of my motorcycles...
Your comment implies that I butchered an Avonaire fairing as well as my bike. On the contrary, that is how the fairing was meant to be mounted. In its day, the fairing was an accessory installed by the dealer in an hour using the system shown.

That web page at http://aatherton05.home.insightbb.com/F ... naire.html shows the original Avonaire mounting system for the /2. That particular Avonaire fairing came to me with its mounting system intact, and it was the same system that my restored Avonaire received back in 1987, when I was still able to get a complete new set of brackets and clamps from Sprint Mfg. Perhaps you noticed the "shell and new brackets" underlined link on the web page. Here is that first Avonaire attached to my R69S with new factory brackets and clamps:



After I posted the web page on Avonaire mounting, one of Peter Nettesheim's crew at Vintage Days 2003 said the page had helped them in making missing hardware and mounting an Avonaire on one their bikes.

[EuroIron]

not at all.......... and to the contrary

I understand that is how it was and still is done so as to be easily bolted up although you cannot deny such clamp type mounts on that relatively thin wall tubing does change it, and visibly so

how I would mount that fairing you would likely presume, was actual butchering, some even, lacking understanding would find my methods, downright scary and regard them as incredibly intrusive

believe me there would be some serious machining and welding taking place and the mounting would be strictly point a to point b

after the fact, in order to make what I would do, look like it never happened would require either filler or simply weld a few holes shut and sand them off

you certainly can understand why I think clamping such things on tubing is bogus and even more detrimental than properly welding a tab or bung onto the same tubing........ and it matters not to me if such is done for a sidecar, luggage, fairing, steering damper........ or whatever

just as I understand it is a somewhat easy means to an end

I can show you many BMW and other vintage frames damaged by such clamps....... why do people do this? and it's not just vintage BMW's but many others too

maybe they can't tig weld, fabricate, or machine

now look at that lower rear mount for example........... why clamp onto the frame there when there is a perfectly good lower engine mount stud so very close? I know the answer already......... because that is how the kit was supplied...........

[EuroIron]

and this top one......... and you have to admit this anchor point is so far removed from optimum..........

anyhow....... even if it had to be there.......... what would be wrong with using either of the two already existing anchoring fasteners........ ok the bottom one is rubber isolated.........

[Allan.Atherton]

... you cannot deny such clamp type mounts on that relatively thin wall tubing does change it, and visibly so...
I had the two Avonaire fairings off several times during trial fitting and maintenance, leaving the clamps loose on the frame, and they only scratch the paint.

...some... would find my methods downright scary and regard them as incredibly intrusive... there would be some serious machining and welding taking place...
Yes, that would involve a lot of trial fitting and marking, then taking the bike down to the frame, then drilling and welding and machining, then repainting and re-assembly. A lot of trouble to install a fairing, and hoping that in the end it fitted without need for the now-impossible re-adjustments.

... I can show you many BMW and other vintage frames damaged by such clamps.....
Perhaps you are thinking of aftermarket sidecar clamps. I have attached crashbars and Avonaires and Flanders stands to /2 frames, and crashbars and Vetter and Windjammer fairings to /5, /6 and /7 frames. These all used clamps and only scratched the paint with no harm to the frames.

[EuroIron]

... you cannot deny such clamp type mounts on that relatively thin wall tubing does change it, and visibly so...
I have have the two Avonaire fairings off several times, freeing the clamps, and they only scratch the paint.

try taking some calipers to the tubing

...some... would find my methods downright scary and regard them as incredibly intrusive... there would be some serious machining and welding taking place...
Yes, that would involve a lot of trial fitting and marking, then taking the bike down to the frame, then drilling and welding and machining, then repainting and re-assembly. A lot of trouble to install a fairing, and hoping that in the end it fitted without need for the now-impossible re-adjustments.

People envision things in many different ways but after one does things like this several times it becomes quite simple and straight forward to do things like this quickly, easily, amazingly rigid, and still be totally adjustable in 3 axis.

... I can show you many BMW and other vintage frames damaged by such clamps.....
Perhaps you are thinking of aftermarket sidecar clamps. I have attached crashbars and Avonaires and Flanders stands to /2 frames, and crashbars and Vetter and Windjammer fairings to /5, /6 and /7 frames. These all used clamps and only scratched the paint with no harm to the frames.

perhaps but I suppose that sometimes people have such opinions regarding the difference between actual mint and damaged depending on if they are buying or selling an item.......... I've seen clamp on items, even side stands, collapse the much weaker tubing enough to let go......... can you see that with your eyes? depends on how good your eyes are I suppose. Touching up paint after such fab is completed........ and really you may be surprised just how tiny the HAZ can be with modern techniques........... or doing it later........ sounds like a wash to me.

frankly, it seems quite ridiculous attempting to justify such rudimentarily(I made this word up, ok?) primitive, far from optimal or ideal, and barbaric mounting techniques other than strictly doing it in the name of period correctness......... they sure as heck don't do it that way on anything made within the last 20 years and I am quite certain the owners of most all modern vehicles are understandably glad..... even if they don't know it

now if I may be excused, I must go patch my burnt thru head pipe with some sectioned beer cans and a a couple radiator hose clamps

[niall4473]

EuroIron wrote:-

now if I may be excused, I must go patch my burnt thru head pipe with some sectioned beer cans and a a couple radiator hose clamps

don't use beer cans especially not the tiny ones you have over there, bean tins are much better, especially the ones with ribbed sides which are good for forming around the bent sections, and being steel they last better as well. Jubilee clips, (hose clamps) are over-engineering it, fence wire works just as well.
Of course for originality you should use sausage tins.

BTW, if you ever have to shim a crank up at the side of the road, here's a tip, Coca-cola tins are 4 thou thick, Pepsi only 3.

[EuroIron]

splendid, I'll keep that in mind........ any opinions on VanCamps Beenie Weenie cans? I heard they were made from Chinese scrap metal

I'm going to post up some pix of some recent butchery of a very light weight Norton Fbed frame......... and done merely in the name of having a good anchor for exhausts, remote oil filter mounts, struts to the secondary intake runner and carb that anchors that mess around 18 inches from the valves

I could have used pclamps and other various easier methods........ but it's a one off race bike, not anything period correct



and I've just about decided I'm going to mount this fairing to a very nice conversion bike I have and in the process, drill the bejeezus and weld on it with much prejudice

then send the whole shooting match over to the painter

[niall4473]

EuroIron wrote:

any opinions on VanCamps Beenie Weenie cans? I heard they were made from Chinese scrap metal

Not familiar with the brand, but if they're made out of recycled Chang Jiangs then they would probably be ideal.

Be very interested to see pics of the Norton, got into them as a kid, it was an act of teenage rebellion, growing up in a house full of BMWs, and Velocettes too, and I still have a few, but I can't help feeling that we'd get ourselves drummed out of this forum for discussing Brits, perhaps we should go to Britbike.com. Asked the old man about the hub thing today and he thought the change was made because the early ones were no good for sidecar work, but as ever BMW never admit to being wrong, so don't tell why they change things, he said that a handful of the very first Earles bikes had another hub again, more like the plunger full width one, but that really was just a handful.

[EuroIron]

well ok here are some bits I made to adapt an oil bag triumph swingarm, with the dropouts cut, shortened, and reversed (drive on wrong side) onto it with timkens and be fully adjustable for preload and side to side





and something as boring as centerstand shoulder bolt and not shown is the lug



it was very kind of Autometer to donate their Pro-Cycle tach to this bike so I made a stainless mount for it, hard to see it is actually isolated in live rubber



since it has a rockin Ducati alternator running on the end of the crank, 68XLCH with dry belt and open primary.......... the engine breathing got modified for reduced pumping losses



this is the general architecture of the front and rear engine mounts although the rears are much more complex..... thankfully this is Ti and not too heavy



now this won't make much sense but that tubing is 0.035" wall and those allens are 1/4 20........ this is the girdle which supports the stator housing which runs off a crank nut with zero runout arbor......... primary.... down low and up front... if the housing wasn't there you would see the crankshaft sprocket....... no in fact you do....... it's the pulley the belt is running on





now let me see if I can find some drilling and welding of this frame with extreme prejudice

this is the glass dual seat support......... not finished and could have been much nicer but I think it will work........ it's all stainless



well here you can see the frame drilled to accept a bung for the manifold struts



I think I put no less than 10 more similar holes in it and you can see a couple of them in the seat brace pic

somewhere I have more pix of this bike during it's last mockup and before final paint

it was a very consuming build but I'm really thinking hard about those twin screws on a boxer in a plunger frame geared for the salt flats