Struggling to recommission R60

schrader7032 · Post by **schrader7032** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:37 am

Seems like you've checked just about everything... I'd try changing the points and condensor...that wouldn't explain why it runs on No. 1 sometimes and No. 2 other time, but it's easy to switch out. I'd also confirm that the advance unit is working. With the front cover off, use a timing light to shine on the unit as the throttle is advanced. Do the weights swing out? Related to that, what happens to the S-mark in the window when viewed with a timing light? Is there a single S-mark or do you see a ghost image? As you advance the throttle, does the S-mark move out of the window? I believe it should slowly disappear towards the top of the window as the RPM increases.

Kurt in S.A.

niall4473 · Post by **niall4473** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:38 am

Thanks Kurt,
I've changed the condenser on the mag that was on, (and the coil), and the other mags had different sets of points, condensors, cams and A/R bobweights, not saying they were all perfect but they seemed ok, one mag was the one off my R69S outfit that I took off 2 years ago to fit a BT-H, so I'm pretty sure that one is ok, all points gapped to 0.4mm. I'll try your idea with the timing light but I'm not really getting to that stage. I tried bypassing the HT leads with new cable wired direct to the plugs and it worked well enough to interfere with next doors telly while the miserable sod was watching football

, when I drew the lead away from the plug on the side that was missing it would jump a gap of about 3/8" so there's a spark there. Transposing the leads on the coil makes no difference. Plugs are Bosch W240Ti (old ones), NGK B8HS(new), Champion L3G( old).

Thanks again

Bruce Frey · Post by **Bruce Frey** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:30 am

Are the safety gaps set correctly?

Run it in a dark garage with the front cover off and look for any strange fireworks.

Good luck,

Bruce

niall4473 · Post by **niall4473** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:45 am

Thanks Bruce,
Safety gaps set at 11mm, at tickover with either lead pulled off, it jumps the gap very nicely but nothing showing with the leads connected, by the way its half past four in the afternoon here and its nearly dark already so I don't need a dark garage!

Thanks again

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:27 pm

have you done any comparisons of the magneto rotor magnets to benchmark their strengths?

I have a two pound hammer a decent rotor will pick up and hold

surprised there isn't a special tool for this........ like a specifically weighted and shaped slug of metal

make sure you are running copper core wires, no resistor caps, and gap the plugs down close to 0.015" as you dare

closer than that and they misfire

nothing else really makes sense

those rotors certainly do require re-gauss and are certainly old enough to be pathetically weak even if they've never been improperly stored or mishandled

a good upgrade would be for somebody to repop it and use Neo-Di/rare earth magnets

I have two Joe Hunts fitted with neo-di rotors and they will jump two HUGE fat blue sparks in open air

and the bikes they are on start and run very reliably

btw....... if you can get iridium (not platinum) plugs for it

that will help immensely in this area especially with today's pump gas

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:43 pm

oh and I'd open that safety gap just to eliminate it from being the path of least resistance

and change plugs

this gas today can render a weak ignition'd bike's plugs beyond reclaiming with blasting even

and quick too

they can even look good but won't ever work good unless you put them in something with very high energy ignition

and fuel injection helps too

sometimes I will go thru 3 or 4 sets of new plugs to get a bike such as yours chomping at the bit reliably

but iridium really does help

gapped down nice and tight

Bruce Frey · Post by **Bruce Frey** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:09 am

I second the suggestion about trying NEW plugs (maybe more than one set). I have had more than one plug that would fire (with a good, blue spark) while sitting on the head, but would not fire under compression loads. It would idle, but not run.

I cannot explain why, only that it happened to my on my R6.....it drove me crazy trying to find it.

Good luck,

Bruce

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:23 am

Do you have adequate fuel flow to the carbs? I think Duane Ausherman's site (www.w6rec.com) has some info about proper flow. Inline fuel filters or a clogged screen inside the tank can reduce flow below the consumption rate.

You say that you don't see a spark across the safety gap at the mag when the bike is idling. Do you see a spark there when you try to give the bike throttle? If not, I would think that Bruce might be on the right track, or perhaps the spark plug caps are going bad.

EuroIron · Post by **EuroIron** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:22 pm

have any of you guys tested or compared a large batch of 30-50 year old permanent magnet magneto rotors against one known good freshly gaussed one?

take my word on this one

they become weak

the magnetic poles of the earth do it if nothing else

a good A&P at a smaller airport can refresh that rotor in just a minute or so

fwiw......... this is very common with any and all permanent magnet electrical generating devices once they become aged.......... with zero respect to country of original manufacture.

when they become weak....... the energy transfer is reduced

and the spark they will deliver across the plugs inside the chamber is drastically reduced and first reveals itself at kicking speeds until the bike can be rendered a no start

I don't think I have ever had a weak magneto rotor reveal itself at high speed first....... that is backwards of how they work although it can be confused on bikes whose rotors are out of phase due to rider controlled variable timing which moves the contact points relative to the point of maximum flux within the magneto...........

are some magnetos NOT like this? yes......... the Norton, for example, has an advance unit which drives the whole unit.......... so this point of maximum flux never changes.....

yet it does on magnetos which advance or retard by changing the timing position of the contact points

the quickest way to verify weak output is to reduce the gap and removed any and all resistance in the ignition secondary.......... such as non-copper core wires and resistor plug caps........

just wire copper core straight to the plug if you don't have access to good, non-resistor, plug wire ends

if reducing gap improves the situation......... you have learned your magneto is weak

and there is no good reason to ever put resistor plug cap ends on a magneto equipped bike....... or any wire other than copper core..... unless you happen to have some gold core wires laying about

comet · Post by **comet** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:07 pm

I know the feeling, I have been there before. Your mention of overheating suggests either improper mixture or timing. I would disregard prior adjustments and start over concentrating on these two issues. Someone may have something totally wrong and it is not apparent. Take the floats out of the carbs and try filling them at different levels. Good luck............Comet