dan-
welcome to unobtainium world! quite the E ticket, isn't it?
interesting, isn't it, that the R11/R16 bikes seem to have become the forgotten, unwanted children of the bmw vintage world; parts for every bike bmw ever made are usually repopped by the handfull-even the very early bikes of the 20's and of course, the R12's-but for some reason, the late twenties to mid thirties twins models built in between have fallen into the black hole of calcutta, to mix my metaphors...
if it makes you feel any better about welding your hub, the metal-no matter what you've heard- is an aluminum/magnisium mix, not pot metal; i found this out because i've had to reweld my hub twice now...so make sure that the welder doesn't use straight aluminum, as it's waaaay too soft (yes, i found out the hard way).
and as an open plea to those going to manheim:
i'd be more than happy to pay a finder's fee to anyone who might be interested in shopping for one for me-and i suspect dan as well-all we ask is that it has no obvious cracks or holes. if you don't know exactly what they look like, just take a look at photos; it's hard to mistake them for other models, since no other series bikes ever looked like them.
gee, can you tell i'm a tad half crazy at this point?
dan-feel free to drop a line to me if you need any arcane info on your bike, and in the meantime i'll keep our fingers crossed for both of us.
-barry robin
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R11 brake plate breaking
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Darryl.Richman
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R11 brake plate breaking
Barry, If you find a supplier for the R11 front brake plate,please let me know. I need one for a 1930 also. Mine is cracked and I was going to weld It up, but found out real quick that it is made of pot metal.
I have some Series 1 R11 questions that I would like to talk with another Ser. 1 owner about. Maybe I should contact you off forum? Thanks,DanDan and Barry, it occurs to me that I should pass along something I was told about my R52, because I think it might also apply to the R11. Please check me on this!
When I was looking at this R52 to buy, I made a list of every detail I could find that was, or might be, wrong. One thing I noticed was that the front brake cable was routed differently than in the factory pictures:
If you look carefully, you'll see that the brake cable runs off of the fork to a boss on the brake plate, and that the lever it actuates is pointed back. In the factory photos, the lever faces forward and the cable runs to where the fender braces mount to the fork.
I spoke with several knowledgable people and was told that this was an "upgrade". The original routing would cause the force on the brakes to change as the front wheel went over bumps, and could cause the brakes to lock.
Perhaps the R11, with a similar trailing link front fork, has a similar problem?
I have some Series 1 R11 questions that I would like to talk with another Ser. 1 owner about. Maybe I should contact you off forum? Thanks,DanDan and Barry, it occurs to me that I should pass along something I was told about my R52, because I think it might also apply to the R11. Please check me on this!
When I was looking at this R52 to buy, I made a list of every detail I could find that was, or might be, wrong. One thing I noticed was that the front brake cable was routed differently than in the factory pictures:
If you look carefully, you'll see that the brake cable runs off of the fork to a boss on the brake plate, and that the lever it actuates is pointed back. In the factory photos, the lever faces forward and the cable runs to where the fender braces mount to the fork.
I spoke with several knowledgable people and was told that this was an "upgrade". The original routing would cause the force on the brakes to change as the front wheel went over bumps, and could cause the brakes to lock.
Perhaps the R11, with a similar trailing link front fork, has a similar problem?
--Darryl Richman
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Barry Robin
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- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R11 brake plate breaking
you're aboslutely correct on that-on all points that i'm aware of. the "upgrade" was indeed just that-but from what i've found, it was noticed by the factory almost immediately, and corrected; almost no bikes were released without the fix.
however, no R11/16's that i know of were sold without the backward facing lever-but they still failed, possibly because bmw hadn't yet gotten around to beefing up the plate with the extra ovaloid gusseting (coming off the lever mounting hole) that appeared on the series 5; we know them better as R12 parts...
however, no R11/16's that i know of were sold without the backward facing lever-but they still failed, possibly because bmw hadn't yet gotten around to beefing up the plate with the extra ovaloid gusseting (coming off the lever mounting hole) that appeared on the series 5; we know them better as R12 parts...
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R11 brake plate breaking
darryl-
big oops on my part! the R11 does indeed go towards the front! don't know what i was thinking...exept that i wasn't!
funny how one's memory plays havoc with the facts sometimes...
i'll try to check my facts and my few remaining grey cells twice before i shoot my mouth off next time.
that being said, perhaps i should look into swapping the lever direction to see if it stops the hub from cracking a third time
-b
big oops on my part! the R11 does indeed go towards the front! don't know what i was thinking...exept that i wasn't!
funny how one's memory plays havoc with the facts sometimes...
i'll try to check my facts and my few remaining grey cells twice before i shoot my mouth off next time.
that being said, perhaps i should look into swapping the lever direction to see if it stops the hub from cracking a third time
-b
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Darryl.Richman
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Split and moved
It seemed like this topic was running inside another thread, in another discussion area, and was more suited to its own thread in this area.
Anyway, I have to agree, I don't think I've ever seen an R11 or R16 in person. Is there one at the Barber museum?
And how do you find out what is "correct" in each of the 5 series? Seems like BMW made a bunch of running changes.
Anyway, I have to agree, I don't think I've ever seen an R11 or R16 in person. Is there one at the Barber museum?
And how do you find out what is "correct" in each of the 5 series? Seems like BMW made a bunch of running changes.
--Darryl Richman
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Barry Robin
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R11 brake plate breaking
i have to agree with you on this thread highjacking silliness-it did indeed take a turn somewhere strange...
you wrote: "And how do you find out what is "correct" in each of the 5 series? Seems like BMW made a bunch of running changes."
yup, they sure did; but unlike the later /2 and /5's, wherein most parts, though perhaps wrong for that year model, still fit all the model years. i learned from experience on my rebuild that almost none of the '29 to '34 pieces retrofit any other year exactly-mainly because bmw kept beefing up the measurements to make them more stable, a few parts per year.
but hey-at least you have a ton of extras to sell off when the bike's done!
are you scared yet, dan?
you wrote: "And how do you find out what is "correct" in each of the 5 series? Seems like BMW made a bunch of running changes."
yup, they sure did; but unlike the later /2 and /5's, wherein most parts, though perhaps wrong for that year model, still fit all the model years. i learned from experience on my rebuild that almost none of the '29 to '34 pieces retrofit any other year exactly-mainly because bmw kept beefing up the measurements to make them more stable, a few parts per year.
but hey-at least you have a ton of extras to sell off when the bike's done!
are you scared yet, dan?
R11 brake plate breaking
Thanks for the brake lever information Darryl and I apologize for my untentional part in the hijacking. Yes, the R11 is a hard one to find much information on. The original pinstripping on my front fork is different from anything I've seen in pictures.
Barry, Is your rear fender removable piece held on with one or two bolts?
Is your center stand return spring a coil spring that fits over the pivot bolt or is it a extension spring that hooks on the frame somewhere?
My bike came with Amal twist grips which I think was an option at some point on the R11...any opinion about that?
It sounds like the brake plate is quite fragile and I think I would rather go with a repop for saftey reasons. If they are not available from the Father land, I may make a pattern and have one or more cast.
Would you have an extra carb for an early R11??
Barry, Is your rear fender removable piece held on with one or two bolts?
Is your center stand return spring a coil spring that fits over the pivot bolt or is it a extension spring that hooks on the frame somewhere?
My bike came with Amal twist grips which I think was an option at some point on the R11...any opinion about that?
It sounds like the brake plate is quite fragile and I think I would rather go with a repop for saftey reasons. If they are not available from the Father land, I may make a pattern and have one or more cast.
Would you have an extra carb for an early R11??
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R11 brake plate breaking
hi'ya dan-
my my; quite a lot of questions there!
well, without pictures or info on your bike, i'll have to be a tad general, but here goes...
on the rear fender: that's almost a trick question-because the answer is three, not two. there's the the single one top of the fender, at the overlapping seam, and then there's one for each side at the end of each stay; these go into the drive shaft housing on the right side, and into a factory drilled hole in the frame on the left.
center stand: according to the parts book, it should take both-at least after 1931; there should be a smallish "O" bracket on the left side of the center stand if your stand was made before the 3rd series, and a flanged pin after. unfortunately, when i first got my bike, this spring set-along with the battery bracket-were the only pieces not original to the bike, so i had to cheat a bit by using a modified R12 battery tray; these were indeed used on the R11, but not untill the 5th series in 1934.
the twist grip (and there were two or three versions, i belive) was indeed an option as far back as 1930, but only officially for the R16; the R11 kept the dual levers untill '31 when bmw swapped carbs to the single sum. my opinion on them depends on if you'll be showing it in a points situation or not. if so: if you still retain the original handlebars, see if they have the factory holes for the through and through mounting of lever sets. if they do, there you have it. if not, mount on the amal or more correctly for the R11, from magra.
that being said, the twist grip, once properly set up, is miles ahead of the hokey levers. but then i'm crazy enough to drive around with my levers, so don't listen to me; one can get used to anything.
now, this is just my opinion, but i'm about to commit heresy: in the real world, sometimes using "wrong" parts is just fine, especially when the right ones don't exist; think about this: there's supposedly only about 150 complete running examples or so of the R11 left driving around; the only people who'll ever know which parts are wrong for your exact year of manufacture are you and about six other people. i sometimes ended up knowing more than some of the judges! with a model this goofy, i feel it's more than fair to say, when asked: sure, you gonn'a get 'em for me? i'd love to use the correct 1931 parts, but but i can't get them; they seem to have been melted down in WWII and no one's ever made repros...
if this set-up is just for you and your local bmw friends, nobody but you will ever know that your example should have had levers instead of a twist grip-especially when bmw swapped parts every other month...
carbs: another trick question: by late 1930 they were already gearing up for the 1931 model, so your bike might be on the cusp-check to see if your frame numbers are early or late.
if early, your carb should be one made by bmw, with a dual barrel float, attatched to an intake manifold (using magra levers). if later, you might be able to mount the fancy dual carbs by amal/fisher. these will bump up your hp considerably.
if you've any pictures i could see, feel free to send the over to my email directly. i could be more specific.
-barry
my my; quite a lot of questions there!
well, without pictures or info on your bike, i'll have to be a tad general, but here goes...
on the rear fender: that's almost a trick question-because the answer is three, not two. there's the the single one top of the fender, at the overlapping seam, and then there's one for each side at the end of each stay; these go into the drive shaft housing on the right side, and into a factory drilled hole in the frame on the left.
center stand: according to the parts book, it should take both-at least after 1931; there should be a smallish "O" bracket on the left side of the center stand if your stand was made before the 3rd series, and a flanged pin after. unfortunately, when i first got my bike, this spring set-along with the battery bracket-were the only pieces not original to the bike, so i had to cheat a bit by using a modified R12 battery tray; these were indeed used on the R11, but not untill the 5th series in 1934.
the twist grip (and there were two or three versions, i belive) was indeed an option as far back as 1930, but only officially for the R16; the R11 kept the dual levers untill '31 when bmw swapped carbs to the single sum. my opinion on them depends on if you'll be showing it in a points situation or not. if so: if you still retain the original handlebars, see if they have the factory holes for the through and through mounting of lever sets. if they do, there you have it. if not, mount on the amal or more correctly for the R11, from magra.
that being said, the twist grip, once properly set up, is miles ahead of the hokey levers. but then i'm crazy enough to drive around with my levers, so don't listen to me; one can get used to anything.
now, this is just my opinion, but i'm about to commit heresy: in the real world, sometimes using "wrong" parts is just fine, especially when the right ones don't exist; think about this: there's supposedly only about 150 complete running examples or so of the R11 left driving around; the only people who'll ever know which parts are wrong for your exact year of manufacture are you and about six other people. i sometimes ended up knowing more than some of the judges! with a model this goofy, i feel it's more than fair to say, when asked: sure, you gonn'a get 'em for me? i'd love to use the correct 1931 parts, but but i can't get them; they seem to have been melted down in WWII and no one's ever made repros...
if this set-up is just for you and your local bmw friends, nobody but you will ever know that your example should have had levers instead of a twist grip-especially when bmw swapped parts every other month...
carbs: another trick question: by late 1930 they were already gearing up for the 1931 model, so your bike might be on the cusp-check to see if your frame numbers are early or late.
if early, your carb should be one made by bmw, with a dual barrel float, attatched to an intake manifold (using magra levers). if later, you might be able to mount the fancy dual carbs by amal/fisher. these will bump up your hp considerably.
if you've any pictures i could see, feel free to send the over to my email directly. i could be more specific.
-barry
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R11 brake plate breaking
darryl-
you asked "...And how do you find out what is "correct" in each of the 5 series? Seems like BMW made a bunch of running changes."
just read off the part numbers stamped on any given part-then look at a catalogue picture.
if you look at a copy of the original parts books-available in reproduction-you can see that unlike the later parts books, it's set up by this clever but needed illustrated chart by part; you just look for the picture-all the various years stock numbers are there-then you can find your existing part number with a check in the accompaning graph that tells you which year it was used in-or with reverse engineering, you can see which versions of each part you need by year, all listed by bmw internally stamped numbers.
for extra fun, you can also use it to find service and replacement parts on your bike done way back then- hey, wait a minute! this part number corrosponds to a year and a half later than my bike! i guess the original owner layed it down so the dealer used the newer stuff...
even some of the nuts and bolts changed numbers and thread counts...!
you asked "...And how do you find out what is "correct" in each of the 5 series? Seems like BMW made a bunch of running changes."
just read off the part numbers stamped on any given part-then look at a catalogue picture.
if you look at a copy of the original parts books-available in reproduction-you can see that unlike the later parts books, it's set up by this clever but needed illustrated chart by part; you just look for the picture-all the various years stock numbers are there-then you can find your existing part number with a check in the accompaning graph that tells you which year it was used in-or with reverse engineering, you can see which versions of each part you need by year, all listed by bmw internally stamped numbers.
for extra fun, you can also use it to find service and replacement parts on your bike done way back then- hey, wait a minute! this part number corrosponds to a year and a half later than my bike! i guess the original owner layed it down so the dealer used the newer stuff...
even some of the nuts and bolts changed numbers and thread counts...!
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Darryl.Richman
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- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
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R11 brake plate breaking
Thanks for the brake lever information Darryl and I apologize for my untentional part in the hijacking.Don't worry about hijacking a thread. It's easy to fix.
This is surprising to me, because they made 8300 of them. That's double what they made of the R52, and yet the problems I have with getting R52 parts have nothing to do with availability and everything to do with cost.Yes, the R11 is a hard one to find much information on.
Isn't the early R11 carb the same item as on the R52/R62 bikes? There are repops of those available, from Dreher at least.Would you have an extra carb for an early R11??
--Darryl Richman