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Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:41 pm
by 75R60
My starter seemed to be requiring more battery than I thought it needed. I felt like it was turning hard so I pulled it off and I am concerned by the amount of wear on the fly wheel. I’m also unsure of the intended condition of the starter gear. From these pictures would you say I need a new starter?
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:27 am
by schrader7032
From what little I can tell, it appears as if the starter was not shimmed or seated fully. Or that the pinion gear on the starter was not being extended far enough to fully engage the flywheel teeth, thus the wear and tear on the edges of the flywheel and starter teeth. Seems to me that the starter could be overhauled for sure to see if the extension of the pinion gear can be improved. I haven't been that deep before so not sure how the starter is indexed to the engine case.
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:14 am
by 75R60
schrader7032 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:27 am
From what little I can tell, it appears as if the starter was not shimmed or seated fully. Or that the pinion gear on the starter was not being extended far enough to fully engage the flywheel teeth, thus the wear and tear on the edges of the flywheel and starter teeth. Seems to me that the starter could be overhauled for sure to see if the extension of the pinion gear can be improved. I haven't been that deep before so not sure how the starter is indexed to the engine case.
The starter sits in the top of the engine, it’s ears bolted firmly to the case. There’s no washers or shims between them, so no make up to be made there. Your observation is still interesting though because perhaps the throwout could be improved. I’ve had issues with it throwing out but not turning before. Usually fixed by shifting into a higher gear and rolling backwards to reset the positioning of the ring gear. I’m obviously hoping to avoid getting into it that deep. I’ll clean this thing out today and post some pictures. Maybe I’ll get lucky. Thanks for your observations!
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:46 am
by srankin
It kind of looks perhaps like the starter's lube went away over time. I have had that happen on both of my bikes. I noticed it when the starter would take a bit more effort to spin the bike over despite having a good well charged battery.
I would suggest finding a good starter repair shop and having it rebuilt. I don't think it can cause any more damage, and if it still isn't right after the rebuild, then you can address replacement of the starter and sad to say perhaps the flywheel.
All in all, the whole BMW system is pretty robust the pictures show some damage but as I said, maybe not enough to do a full blown flywheel starter replacement.
Good luck, St.
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:54 am
by 75R60
srankin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:46 am
It kind of looks perhaps like the starter's lube went away over time. I have had that happen on both of my bikes. I noticed it when the starter would take a bit more effort to spin the bike over despite having a good well charged battery.
I would suggest finding a good starter repair shop and having it rebuilt. I don't think it can cause any more damage, and if it still isn't right after the rebuild, then you can address replacement of the starter and sad to say perhaps the flywheel.
All in all, the whole BMW system is pretty robust the pictures show some damage but as I said, maybe not enough to do a full blown flywheel starter replacement.
Good luck, St.
Pretty cool to see people with the amount of knowledge you guys have responding to my little post. Thanks!
Update: I cleaned the starter out pretty well. Reassembled it with a touch of assembly lube at each end where the motor meets the brass sleeve on the housing. Put power to it and it throws out and spins nicely. I had heard not to grease the inner workings so as to avoid collecting dust so I went with that. Like you said if it doesn’t work out I can throw a new starter on. Kind of fun pulling this thing apart though a bit difficult getting the brushes back around the commutator at the base of it
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:47 pm
by srankin
LOL, I find everything is easy to take apart, it is the putting it back together again that sometimes confounds me. I sometimes forget the factories have jigs, robots, and special tools for putting things together. St.
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:25 pm
by 75R60
srankin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:47 pm
LOL, I find everything is easy to take apart, it is the putting it back together again that sometimes confounds me. I sometimes forget the factories have jigs, robots, and special tools for putting things together. St.
Haha True!
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:54 pm
by srankin
My last effort to put something together which reminded me of the fact of how easy the factory has it when I was trying to "fix" the turn signal/headlight switch on my RS. The little bitty spring kept going over my shoulder along with the teeny tiny ball bearing. After the fifth try, the spring went and hid never to be found agin. If it took that much trouble to put a switch together at the factory, BMW would be bankrupt. Jigs, tools, robots, the deck is stacked against us mechanics. LOL, St.
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:15 pm
by RickR90s
@75R60
The stock Bosch unit isn't going to spin as well as the newer Valeo or Euromotoelectrics offerings. And I believe the sprag clutch (at the front gear) is NLA.
At least it was when I wanted to rebuild mine on my R90s. I went with a Valeo. Totally happy and the starter spins like a modern bike.
Re: Do I need a new starter?
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:26 am
by ECJ
It's also worth noting that the Euro Motoelectrics model is almost 6lbs (!!) lighter than the stock Bosch starter. In addition to being lighter, it has (an advertised) 70-140% more cranking torque, and a 20% lower amperage draw. All wins in my book.
I just purchased one for my /2 conversion project, and at least out of the box it looks quality, and they offer a 24 month warranty, which certainly says something.
ECJ