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Restoring #163

All about BMW in racing can be discussed. Sharing of pictures, and other information.
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Ericandchi
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by Ericandchi »

John,
If you are restoring one of the bikes, how about building a separate thread and posting pics there. Since Steve and Reg's bikes are already restored, I'm guessing you have the Gary Fisher bike.

johnlacko
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by johnlacko »

Eric, yes I think that’s a good idea - I will. Sorry if I got too far off topic answering a question to my question. We’re all learning a lot here though🙂

From the background story that your father told me, and checking specific details of the build, I am about 95% certain that I have the Fisher bike. The VIN is about 40 numbers before the #163 bike, so it’s also the right era. Someone else out there is said to have the Fisher bike, but the exact age and details are not known. There are also conflicting stories about it, and reaching out to the current owner got no reply. So for the moment I keep an open mind.

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Ericandchi
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by Ericandchi »

For John L.
I found this pic while looking through files. Not sure it's what you were looking for, but it is another view of the oil cooler plate with the case on stand.


Oil cooler plate
Oil cooler plate

johnlacko
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by johnlacko »

Thanks Eric! I hope to see the bike in person someday if BMW North America brings it out for display. Perhaps next year for the 100th Anniversary celebrations.

mogammar
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by mogammar »

I have been following the remains of 163 for years. Your involvement fills in some of the gaps. I'm not averse to naming names As James H is 80 now and I'm cleaning out the remains of his BMW parts collection. The New York museum that has 163 says very little about it. As in "After he located it, its was sent to the original builder". That's it? I assumed the builder was Udo Geitl. Is that correct?

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Ericandchi
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by Ericandchi »

I guess technically Butler and Smith would be the builder with Udo, my dad, being the person running the effort.

Are there any race parts in the collection you are clearing out? I have one of the two C&J frames that were used the year after the factory motorrad frames but before the Rob North ones where built. Currently I have no plans for it but someday I might do something with it. Someone welded additional frame beams onto it so it's lost some of its originality. Not planning to part with it.

mogammar
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by mogammar »

I'm not sure, I think there were some race pistons, I will have a look at them , but i'm not an expert. There is so much stuff to go through, No telling what will show up. The big fat Lester mags were related to some race effort. I tried to buy all the parts 15 years ago when no one really seemed to care. James was not ready to sell it all, Not because he thought it was worth more than my offer. He had closed his shop in Austin and I think he wanted all the parts to stay in contact with all his old customers. I had spoke with Bruce "83" about 14 years ago and told him James had the bike. he boo-hooed me as it was not completely original. I didn't argue with him, but I knew he was wrong. So how did the guy in New York get involved ? I begged James over the years to do a mach up of the bike. I did not want to own it , I wanted to tell the story. I wrote for ride Texas magazine for a number of years. The early history is pretty fascinating in its own right.

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Re: Restoring #163

Post by flyingtpot »

I went through that parts stash in detail over a decade ago. The parts were scattered in the storage facility and it was quite a mess to view.

There were an abundance of 'modified' heads in that mess. They generally were dual plugged, ported and polished and with non-stock carb intake manifolds. Some of them also had modified head gasket surfaces, like shown in one of the pics in the first post of this thread. In that pic, the head gasket surfaces are different. The reason(s) for that difference? How was it determined out of that parts stash what were the exact pair of heads for #163?

There were also other heads in that stash that had modified head gasket surfaces which were similar to the right side head in the pic. The difference was they were modified with an epoxy type material, not a TIG(?) and machine(?) type of modification. Any info on those heads?

Did Udo not build #163 with a Fallert magnesium oil pan?

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Ericandchi
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Re: Restoring #163

Post by Ericandchi »

Regarding the heads in the second pic of this thread.... The head on left is essentially stock with a single plug. The head on the right has dual plugs and a modified intake port. The other main difference that is notable are the push rod tubes are larger diameter. The reason for this is because the cylinders are shorter which changed the push rod angle. As a result the cylinders and heads needed larger push rod tubes to give extra clearance. Stock gaskets where used, but the push rod tube ends needed to be opened up. In a few engines copper head gaskets were used which could be reused. We have a handful of these in the box. As for deciding which heads to use....well considering that the guy who built the original bikes also did the restoration, you can assume he knew what to use.

No magnesium oil pan was used. There was none in the parts pile when i picked up the bits. Nor was there magnesium front cover, ignition cover or transmission housing. Those are the rarest of parts from these bikes.

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Re: Restoring #163

Post by flyingtpot »

From my review of the part stash where #163 was 'stored', there were numerous iterations of modified heads. Clarity on my question.... How was the final head design determined for heads used on #163... Track runs? Dyno? Both? Other reasons?

Obviously, the head on the left in your pic, is not modified like that on the right. Was the left side head found, or another modified for the #163 resurrection?

The attached pic is a set of heads from that stash. They were ported and polished before their recent cleaning. They had epoxy, or an epoxy like material, on the fin surface that went from the pushrod tube opening to the edge of the fin. Can Udo verify the history of this set of heads?

There was a non-stock gearbox housing and close-ratio gear set in storage with #163.
Attachments
modified heads.jpg

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