Let's talk about slingers
Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:36 am
Aloha,
Thanks Thomas. I've sent you an IM int the past. I'll try again and see if we can get together on this. I was avoiding doing the transmission for now but, since there is some expertise close by, I may just take it on.
JDL, even though I paid full boat for the head rebuild, I do feel i'm entitled to bitch a bit, I will keep that to myself on the site. I will send you the information personally though if you really need. I don't think it's hard to figure out the one shop in Northern California that has a great Facebook page though. I'm sure he's competent overall but, my job, not so much. What I didn't say was all the concourse events he attended while my heads were sitting in his shop not being worked on. That's all in the past now so, I'll hele (Hawaiian for move) on.
So, we've all hear Vech talk about slingers. He's right. Though I didn't have issues with mine, yet, I do have some photos to show that it's important. the crud will fill up the slingers and migrate to the oiling ports on the crank pins eventually starving the connecting rods of oil.
The crud is not has hard as I thought from the discussions on the boards but, it is there and will not come loose without removal of the crank and thorough cleaning.
I DO NOT recommend even attempting to change oil to a detergent oil or running any solvents in there. As a consulting turbine engineer, I have learned that unless you completely disassemble and get critical parts out of the way like bearings, pumps, orifices, relief valves... In other words everything but the tank and piping, you will do damage. Do even a little research on the use of detergent oils on older engines in the 60's and 70's and you will see a trail of destruction. There is no doubt that you have something in your oil passages that's comfortably stuck right where it is. If you get it loose, it's going to find something like the passages in your crank pins or cylinder lubrication and destroy your engine. Just leave it alone. Periodically, disassemble your engine, clean the slingers and oil passages and put it back together. it's just not that hard.
As for how often, all I know is some things that will extend the period between. Again, extend to what? I don't know. I challenge anyone to says they do to produce their crystal ball. The guys that service these engines routinely will have the best data. Conditions inside your engine are the only constant and none of us can know that.
1. Change the oil often. Removing the particulate is the only reliable method of prevention.
2. Using a magnetic drain plug or some of the pan magnets available will help reduce the steel particulate in the oil. I say help because as long as the engine is running, metal particles will NOT settle on the magnet in any significant way. It's only when the engine is sitting that the magnets will be of most benefit. The good news is that the aluminum is softer than than steel so, it will do less abrasive damage. The bad news is, it will still plug oiling orifices in the crank pins and the bearings rolling over it will cause micro-vibration.
As long as the engine is running you have an active and effective centrifuge operating. That's why detergent oil, even in a fresh engine will not do any good. The heavier metal will still settle out in the slingers due to centrifugal force.
I've done the math and there is no way to put an effective oil filtering system on the installed oil pumping system. It is possible to install some electric "kidney pump" oil filter system however, I don't know of any. The problem with a kidney pump oil filtering system is, the oil is not filtered before entering the slingers so, at best, it will only increase the time between oil changes. Certainly the price of installing one is more than the price of changing oil multiple times. There are various deep oil pans with magnets in them which will increase the volume and therefore dilute the amount of particulate / volume of oil. The bad news? Centrifuges don't care! They are patent and will see every drop of oil and entrained metal at some point.
Here's some photos.
Thanks Thomas. I've sent you an IM int the past. I'll try again and see if we can get together on this. I was avoiding doing the transmission for now but, since there is some expertise close by, I may just take it on.
JDL, even though I paid full boat for the head rebuild, I do feel i'm entitled to bitch a bit, I will keep that to myself on the site. I will send you the information personally though if you really need. I don't think it's hard to figure out the one shop in Northern California that has a great Facebook page though. I'm sure he's competent overall but, my job, not so much. What I didn't say was all the concourse events he attended while my heads were sitting in his shop not being worked on. That's all in the past now so, I'll hele (Hawaiian for move) on.
So, we've all hear Vech talk about slingers. He's right. Though I didn't have issues with mine, yet, I do have some photos to show that it's important. the crud will fill up the slingers and migrate to the oiling ports on the crank pins eventually starving the connecting rods of oil.
The crud is not has hard as I thought from the discussions on the boards but, it is there and will not come loose without removal of the crank and thorough cleaning.
I DO NOT recommend even attempting to change oil to a detergent oil or running any solvents in there. As a consulting turbine engineer, I have learned that unless you completely disassemble and get critical parts out of the way like bearings, pumps, orifices, relief valves... In other words everything but the tank and piping, you will do damage. Do even a little research on the use of detergent oils on older engines in the 60's and 70's and you will see a trail of destruction. There is no doubt that you have something in your oil passages that's comfortably stuck right where it is. If you get it loose, it's going to find something like the passages in your crank pins or cylinder lubrication and destroy your engine. Just leave it alone. Periodically, disassemble your engine, clean the slingers and oil passages and put it back together. it's just not that hard.
As for how often, all I know is some things that will extend the period between. Again, extend to what? I don't know. I challenge anyone to says they do to produce their crystal ball. The guys that service these engines routinely will have the best data. Conditions inside your engine are the only constant and none of us can know that.
1. Change the oil often. Removing the particulate is the only reliable method of prevention.
2. Using a magnetic drain plug or some of the pan magnets available will help reduce the steel particulate in the oil. I say help because as long as the engine is running, metal particles will NOT settle on the magnet in any significant way. It's only when the engine is sitting that the magnets will be of most benefit. The good news is that the aluminum is softer than than steel so, it will do less abrasive damage. The bad news is, it will still plug oiling orifices in the crank pins and the bearings rolling over it will cause micro-vibration.
As long as the engine is running you have an active and effective centrifuge operating. That's why detergent oil, even in a fresh engine will not do any good. The heavier metal will still settle out in the slingers due to centrifugal force.
I've done the math and there is no way to put an effective oil filtering system on the installed oil pumping system. It is possible to install some electric "kidney pump" oil filter system however, I don't know of any. The problem with a kidney pump oil filtering system is, the oil is not filtered before entering the slingers so, at best, it will only increase the time between oil changes. Certainly the price of installing one is more than the price of changing oil multiple times. There are various deep oil pans with magnets in them which will increase the volume and therefore dilute the amount of particulate / volume of oil. The bad news? Centrifuges don't care! They are patent and will see every drop of oil and entrained metal at some point.
Here's some photos.