Bought the 81 R65 but it broke down already

PGK · Post by **PGK** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:24 pm

Had the oil and filter been changed recently? It could be that the same fellow who forgot the shim also pinched the gasket and the cold temps in the morning when you started the bike let the gasket contract enough to allow oil to push through the gasket and leak out from under the filter cover. If that's the case then it would have functioned fine when it was warm.

You didn't do any harm by starting it and running it—in fact, you did the right thing but shutting it off and towing it home.

p.s. I've been reviewing your posts, and I'm glad to see that you finally bit the bullet. Here's to hoping it doesn't bite back too hard.

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:13 am

I think you probably did no harm to the bike; however, the Airheads have a nickname for this problem: the $2000 O ring. There are at least three different variations of shim, gasket and O rings that go in the oil filter housing, and if they aren't done right, then you get low oil pressure. BMW only supplies one kit, with all the parts for the different variations. The owner or mechanic has to know what's right for his particular bike.

The cold oil could have finished off the (very thin) paper gasket. The bike needed some TLC anyway, if it had a torn diaphram. The diaphrams last a number of years, but should be inspected at every service (5000 miles). Likewise, the gasket should be changed at every service. So, either the PO didn't do the regular services, or the bike has been doing a lot of standing around.

In either case, I would give the bike a thorough going over, with particular attention to any rubber pieces (including tires/tubes). I would want to know that the valves are adjusted properly, the jets and passages in the carbs are clean, and that the battery is properly topped off and charged. Check the clutch cable, especially at each end, for fraying or kinking, and replace it if you find it. Put a bit of grease on the barrels and make sure that they are free to rotate in the lever. Make sure the throttle cables move freely, too, but BMW cables are nylon lined and don't need or want lubing; if they are stiff, they should be replaced.

schrader7032 · Post by **schrader7032** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:16 am

Here is a good discussion of the $2000 o-ring:

http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/Oil.htm

I'm not sure about the R65 as it is a little different in various areas. There's a canister within the engine which has a sharp lip on it which can cut into the large white o-ring. The oil filter fits inside this canister. The reason for the shim is to keep the edge from cutting the o-ring. The canister is mounted so that typically the edge is 3mm inside the engine case. That usually calls for the shim, the o-ring, and no outside paper gasket. The idea is to create a "reasonable" amount of compression on the o-ring so it seals. If the paper gasket is used, that lessens the pressure on the o-ring. If the canister is greater than 3mm deep, then again not enough pressure is place on the o-ring...the trick there is to add another shim... Snowbum's site discusses all of the scenarios.

It sounds scary, but once you figure out what the bike needs, it's straightforward after that.

Kurt in S.A.

khill · Post by **khill** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:34 am

I think the oil was changed about 4 months before my recent purchase
but it had not been ridden much after that. Now I really have my work
cut out for me. Lots of research on all the nuances of the R65 and
probably most of the older airheads. It does seem to me that the O ring
would be a lot stronger than the little thin gasket that did finally tear.
I do like the idea of two shims to provide more pressure on the O ring
but I need to really study this before trying it.

I really will be reading all I can find on the O ring situation and I might
have some more questions as time goes on. This is starting to sound
like all the things I had to learn on my older 1980 SC porsche. Once I
knew what it took to keep them running it was not a problem.

Thanks for all the responses.

Kirk

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:48 am

One other hint: if your bike still has the battery side covers, make sure they are zip tied to the frame tube behind them, through the "gills". If you don't do this (or something similar), you will lose them. DAMHIK.

So, you did put 130 miles on the bike, even with a torn diaphram. Does it seem freeway capable to you?

And put some pictures up!

BTW, I will be in Deming, NM over Veterans Day weekend. There's a BBQ there put on by the former owner of Deming Cycle Center, Don Cameron...

khill · Post by **khill** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:29 pm

It did seem to be fairly capable on the freeway but it was misting so I
didn't want to go all that fast but it seemed to keep up with traffic pretty
well. I heard about the big deming get together when I was at Bentonville
BMW in Arkansas.

If I knew how to reach Don I would love to attend at
least part of it. I live about 85 miles from Deming. Anybody have a phone #?

Also I have heard about some very nice replacement mufflers
for the R65 but at a fraction of the cost. I think they said they were made
in Tiiwan or someplace like that. Also I am already looking at tires. Should I use tube tires or can tubless be used?

Thanks

Kirk Hill

schrader7032 · Post by **schrader7032** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:39 pm

If I knew how to reach Don I would love to attend at
least part of it. I live about 85 miles from Deming. Anybody have a phone #?

There was an email address in the link that Darryl gave...

Kurt in S.A.

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:50 am

You're "snowflake" wheels were never intended to run tubeless. I recall that my R65 came with Continental RB2 and K112 tires. I would get 15 or 20,000 miles out of them. They were iron hard. I hope they're not available any more. I've found that the current Michelin tires are very good on my R90S.

(I didn't know any better, and when I bought an '85 R80, it came with tubeless Metzelers, and I couldn't believe how much more grip they had!)

As far as the Deming Gathering goes, I'll PM you with Don's number. But you should sign up and pay in advance because Don only buys the meat that's paid for. I will be doing the graveyard shift, tending to the smoker from 4am to about 9 on Saturday morning.

khill · Post by **khill** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:36 am

Thanks Darryl for the update on the snowflake type wheels regarding
type of tires. I had heard (possibly on this forum) that they were designed for tube type tires. The bike I purchased has Michelins on it
now but they could stand to be replaced. Also thanks for the info on the
deming veterans day get together. I guess my next question will be
about buying basic parts like valve cover and filter gaskets and "O" rings
for service. I hear that Bob's and A & S are good possibilities but there
are probably many others. Also some of my Beemer friends told me last
night that the valves are not clattering enough and need to be set so with
their help I will get that done today. One guy that has owned many very
nice airheads recommends .006 and .008 for the exhaust. I think this
is two thousands more than standard but he said he was taught by a well
known BMW mechanic to do that and he said he has never had any problems with his R100's. He now owns a newer Oilhead. Any thoghts on
this?

Thanks again,

Kirk Hill

VBMWMO · Post by **VBMWMO** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:51 pm

Well I finally decided to buy the 81 R65 in the Milwaukee area and the seller and I thought it would be great to ride it back to New Mexico. Well
that turned out to be a very poor decision. Here is sort of a timeline of
events that happened on the way home.

1. Rode to Ill. (about 130 miles) the first day as it was raining and I decided to stop at a motel. Bike appeared to run pretty well.

2. Got ready to take off the next morning and it was pretty cold (36 f)
Finally got it started but a by stander notice lots of oil gushing from
the engine and I noticed lots of knocking in the engine.

3. Had bike towed to a storage facility and got a ride to the nearest Amtrak station and came back to NM to get my pickup.

4. Shipping seemed to high and they wanted 3 weeks for a pickup.

5. Got the R65 loaded into my little pickup and headed to Bentonville, Arkansas to see Bentonville BMW. It was on the way home. They were
just great and took the bike right in and checked the oil and it was one
quart low. That of course was on the motel parking lot even though I tried
to clean it up. Then they pulled the filter and the gasket was severed
and a "O" ring shim was missing as well. So replaced these items and
filled it up with oil and they took it on a test ride. All checked out well
with no knocks or other bad noises. They did say the carberators were not working properly and replaced the diaphrams which one was torn.

It now runs great but here is my question. Could I have contributed to
the oil filter gasket tear by revving the engine when it was cold to keep
it running in the morning? I drove it 130 miles and no oil leaks until
attempting to start it in the colder next morning. Possibly the thick oil could have imposed more pressure on the gasket. Do these gaskets give out often or was this just a fluke?

Thanks

Kirk Hill