Considering purchasing 82 R65?

[schrader7032]

Seems like a lot to go wrong unless the bike wasn't well cared for or it has many more miles than anyone knows or will admit. Some Airheads will weep oil like that...weeping is tolerable if you're OK with that kind of thing. Someone must have been abused that tranny to have to have that kind of work done so early. I don't know what you mean by "splitting the case". That wouldn't be required if the tranny was worked on. I'd have second thoughts for that kind of dough.

Kurt in S.A.

[khill]

Hi Kurt,

As you can tell I'm a real novice on older BMW's. How does a mechanic
get to the transmission on the older BMW? I think you are going to tell
me that the transmission is separate from the engine. That would be nice
if more work is needed on the transmission. I think the miles are probably incorrect as with many of the older R65's I have looked at.
This one does have some nice BMW type luggage bags which I would use
a lot. I'm not sure what they would cost on ebay or someplace like that.

Thanks

Kirk

[Darryl.Richman]

The oil weep isn't uncommon, and so long as it is just a weep, it won't be a mechanical problem. But because this is an older bike, the rubber seals on the pushrod tubes under the cylinders may well be cracking and starting to leak. Repairing this requires removing the cylinders -- a job that is not at all beyond the ken of the home mechanic. If you do that, then you'll have the opportunity to replace the base gasket, and eliminate the weep.

Usually, the phrase "splitting the case" refers to opening up the motor. In the case of a BMW twin, however, the case doesn't split, it's a single casting with a front cover. (This fancy casting makes the crankcase stronger than a split case arrangement.) The transmission is a separate casting, with a separate oil supply tailored for its needs, rather than a compromise with what the engine needs. The clutch is an automotive style dry clutch.

Opening the transmission is a major event. To put it back together again requires a certain amount of care, because the cover must be shimmed correctly to get the right amount of preload on all three shafts inside. Getting it wrong will lead to doing the job all over again, possibly replacing all the bearings.

You should locate a reputable mechanic to look at this bike. It will cost you an hour or two of his time, but you may well avoid spending much more on a mistake. Be sure to have him give you an estimate of how much of the clutch is used up. If the transmission is abused, then the clutch may well be very worn, too.

I would be concerned, as Kurt is, about the total amount of work that has been done to what is supposed to be a low mileage bike. If one of the items you mention failed in 25k miles or so, that wouldn't be completely surprising. But the R65 doesn't have a reputation for failing speedos or transmissions. And wearing out the shifting dogs in such a low mileage bike speaks of lots of shifting abuse, such as clutchless shifting or downshifts where the engine and wheels speeds weren't matched.

The missing side covers are, however, a common event. If or when you do get a pre-Monolever era R65 (1978-1984), be certain to zip-tie the sidecovers to the frame rail underneath, or you will certainly lose them. This is the voice of experience speaking.

Finally, unless this is otherwise a really cherry bike, I think she's asking too much for it. With all of the questionable items, it would make me very wary.

[khill]

Thanks Darryl for your welcome advise. Sometimes I think I should just
buy a lower price R65 and completely rebuild it. At least I would know
the condition of all the components. I think most of the older beemers
are questionable regarding the mileage shown on the speedo. This one looked pretty good but certainly not pristine at all. It did sound good
when the lady started it but I just think that $3200 is just to much for
less than a really nice R65. I am starting to look at some of the Moto Guzzi's but my friends tell me to stick with my R65 search and pass on the Moto's.

Kirk

[khill]

When you say one has to remove the cylinders to replace the seals/gaskets at the pushrods I would imagine that this will rquire
that new piston rings will be required. Also honing the cylinders would
be required to insure a good seating for the new rings. Also as you mentioned then new gaskets could be installed at the base of the cylinder.

It sounds like you are saying to replace the seals on the pushrods all the
cylinder will have to be removed. This sounds like a pretty big job but
maybe not.

Thanks

Kirk

[Darryl.Richman]

When you say one has to remove the cylinders to replace the seals/gaskets at the pushrods I would imagine that this will rquire
that new piston rings will be required. Also honing the cylinders would
be required to insure a good seating for the new rings. Also as you mentioned then new gaskets could be installed at the base of the cylinder.

It sounds like you are saying to replace the seals on the pushrods all the
cylinder will have to be removed. This sounds like a pretty big job but
maybe not.
One big reason to buy an '81 or later bike is that the cylinders are all aluminum with Nikasil hard plating, rather than the older iron sleeved aluminum cylinders. Not only are the cylinders significantly lighter, and transfer heat away more readily, but the Nikasil lining is harder than even chrome rings, and it simply doesn't wear. But because it's plated on, you can't bore or even hone the cylinders -- and there's no need to.

For example, here's a picture of an R1100RS motor that has "grenaded". It had 182,000 miles on it, and the pistons and cylinders were never touched in that time. These also have Nikasil plating. I call your attention to the fact that the original honing marks are still visible in the cylinder. This bike used almost no oil right up to the end of the motor.



While you might need new rings if they are worn, it is possible to remove the cylinders from the bike without removing the pistons from the cylinders and avoid even that. (You can slide the loosened cylinders out far enough to expose the wrist pins, remove them, and take the cylinder and piston off together.)

You can do all that work with the motor still in the frame. However, you should invest in a parts book and a service book, such as the Haynes manual. One of the things that makes some BMW owners really appreciate their older bikes is surprising ease of working on them. But they are built with a certain amount of subtlety and it can somtimes be puzzling to take them apart and get them together if you aren't familiar with the "tricks".

For this particular job, you would need new head gaskets (2) and new pushrod seals (4). I don't recall how the cylinder base is sealed on this bike, as BMW used different methods over the years: there may be a complete gasket there, there may be a large O-ring, or there may be no gasket at all and a couple small O-rings to seal the oil supply.

In any event, the parts are available from a dealer (try that with a 25 year old Harley or Honda!), though they may have to order them. If you aren't near a dealer, you can order online from A&S Cycle in California, Chicago BMW or Max's BMW in New England, among others who have the "parts fiche" online.

[khill]

Well it's 81 or later for my R65 purchase. I really appreciate the help
towards my quest to buy a older beemer. I would love to do much of
the work on it as long as I can get up to speed and do it correctly.
I'll work on the seller and see if I can get her down a little on her
bike. Thanks again for the help.

Kirk

[VBMWMO]

I looked at a fairly nice 1982 R65 today and it seemed to run pretty well
but the lady who is selling it said the speedo had been replaced and it
showed 22K on it and the original showed 1500 miles on it. Would a new
speedo break with that few miles on it? Also it had a little dark oil drip
where the cylinder and the case meet. She said all airheads did that. The opposite side did not have any oil leaks. Also she said the shifting dogs had worn flat and they all had to be replaced in the transmission some time ago and also some type of wire link part of the shifting mechanism had to replaced as well. If this R65 has only 24K as she is suggesting would all these things have happened so soon mileage wise? I would guess when they split the case they had to put new rings on the pistons as well.
She wants $3200 and this seems a tad high to me. Also the side covers
are missing but she does have the original tool kit. Should I be smelling
a rat here?

Thanks

Kirk