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1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

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Slash2
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1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by Slash2 »

I’m in the process of dialing in the R80 G/S that I spent the last 11 months bringing back into service. When I found the bike it had been sitting and before that had clearly been leaking from many of the seals. So before even attempting to start the bike, she was taken down to the frame, engine and gearbox fully resealed, forks rebuilt, steering head bearings replaced, carbs fully rebuild, new tires, brakes rebuilt and lots of small issues addressed. She barked to life on the first attempt after many months of work and sounds like a new motor. She’s running beautifully and I’m growing in fondness for her character more-so with each and every ride. I seem to have chased down every minor issue post rebuild in the first few hundred miles but the steering head bearings are continuing to confound me.

I used the cycle works puller to remove the lower bearing from the tree and the cycle works draw bar to install the new races. Let’s say I wasn’t entirely impressed with the design of these tools but they got the job done.. more or less. If you have any issues with anything purchased from cycle works, good luck getting any help from Dan. Anyway, upon assembling the front-end I adjusted the bearings for a “slow drop” from center as per several veterans recommendations and all felt good. But after a few rides I detected some play and sure enough the bearings were no longer under proper tension. I checked the large acorn nut and it was properly torqued to 87ft/lbs so I removed the handlebars, tank, seat etc and loosened all appropriate fasteners, adjusted the stem nut back to the correct tension with zero play, slow drop and retorqued all fasteners. Everything was good until another few rides when I again detected play. Same process, repeat and ride. I’ve been through this process now 5 times and with each one I seem to be drawing the assembly further together.

So. I’m beginning to wonder if my cycleworks draw bar simply pressed the races flush with the frame instead of into a recessed position and the act of riding is slowly seating those races. The only way to verify fully seated races that I can envision is removing the entire front end and using some sockets along with my drawbar and torquing the bearing assembly to 80ft/lbs or there abouts. The alternative is to continue this ride/tighten process until it stops loosening up.

A few tidbits of note. I did notice that at first upon reassembly the fork tubes were riding a few mm above the lower yoke clamps but are now in the exact position as they were before I removed them. It seems if I had a socket that fit the slotted stem nut I could remove the top brace plate and torque that fastener to 80ft/lbs and then rotate the front end lock to lock, loosen, repeat, loosen and tighten to 10ft/lbs but I don’t have a tool that fits that nut.

The entire tightening procedure only takes about 30 minutes but I’d really rather not continue this any longer than necessary. Any thoughts or suggestions from the group? Thanks

Chris
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sherman980
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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by sherman980 »

Chris,
No clue from here if your bearing races are fully seated or not, but it sounds like not. When installing the outer races in the frame head (or a swingarm or a ....) , once I get them started, I use a brass mallet and a large socket as close to the OD of the race but "not quite" and drive the race home to be sure it is seated. If you don't and it's not fully seated, it gets knocked into place anyway while in use, but instead of the pounding being on the outside edge of the race, it is on the balls, rollers, etc. and the running surfaces they ride on. Not good for the bearing sets at all. Just one guy's suggestion. Hope it helps.
Thanks.
Chuck S

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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by Slash2 »

Hi Chuck,

In thinking over my installation procedure I believe I used the old race to drive the new ones in with my draw bar once started with my mallet. Apparently I didn’t get them all the way in unless there’s some other unknown variable. I know these tapered roller bearings are tremendously stout but also that any hammering in the race could prematurely brinell my new races. At this point I think the whole front end needs to come off and get my eyeballs on the situation. If there’s any evidence of damage I’ll likely install fresh bearings/races prior to reassembly and be damn certain the races are fully seated.

Thank you for your input.

Chris
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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by Slash2 »

Took a few hours to dig into the front end this afternoon and sure enough the lower race wasn’t fully seated. I was able to get that pressed in and the bearing tension set followed by a nice 50 mile loop of mixed on/off road riding and the bearing tension was still spot on upon my return home. I’ll keep tabs on them for the next few hundred miles but I feel pretty confident the issue has been resolved.

Thanks!
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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by srankin »

Getting the new races into place can be a challenge at times. They are so tight if off just a gnat's hair, they don't like to seat.

LOL, I didn't offer any advice at the time because you looked like you had a good grasp of the problem were on the path to solving it yourself and didn't need my cockamamy help.

Last winter when I replaced the steering head bearings in my RS, I looked to buy the cycle works tool. Alas, they only sold the whole kit and I only needed the assembly half not the removal bit.

I did manage to figure out how to seat the races and mad did I tighten the heck out of the bearings for a bit then backed off to normal. Worked for me.

I guess I am more or less writing to say thank you for taking the time to let people in the forum know how you made out and what you did to fix things. Enjoy the riding, St.
Owner of a 84, R80RT and 78, R100RS

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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by sherman980 »

Chris,
Glad you got your "race" situation sorted. As you found out, not having the race fully seated causes a lot of additional work to get it fixed if you don't get it right the first time. A couple of thoughts about that. While I know everyone wants to use the "right" tool to get the job done "just right", occasionally it can get a bit silly. Think about the pounding your head races deal with when you take a 10' jump on a fully loaded GS at 60mph running through the desert - you may not do it, but the guys who run Baja, etc. do. You'd be hard pressed (no pun intended) to hit a race that hard while inserting it. That is not to say that using a pointed punch to knock a race in or out might not cause some damage (mostly likely bending), but using a socket which spreads the load around the outside perimeter of the race with some light (or even not so light) taping won't cause any issues here. AND it will help insure that everything is seated correctly. And better yet, you don't need to buy a "special" tool to do it. In 50+ years of working on motorcycles (some as shop mechanic), I have never seen a race broken or damaged using this technique. And you might take a look at some of the "special" tools BMW makes for seating bearing races. They are designed to work just like a socket to drive the race into place with a hammer. Don't mean to dwell on this, just trying to save you and other folks a little time, money and aggravation.
Thanks.
Chuck S

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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by wa1nca »

I bought a 3/4 inch socket set at a tag sale
Used only a few times to r+r nuts and bolts
Mostly used to r+r bearings ect.
Tommy
Tommy Byrnes
54 R51/3, 55 R50/Velorex 560 sidecar, 64 R27, 68 R69US, 75 R75/6
Ashfield, Ma
USA

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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by Slash2 »

SRankin,

All input and suggestions are welcome. Thanks for weighing in. As you mentioned, the tolerances are quite tight and I suppose my usual soft-handed approach likely is the source of my problem. If there's a theme to most of the issues I encounter throughout my motorcycle maintenance and general servicing of my machines, it is the question of when more force is required to accomplish a task OR when more force will damage or destroy a component. I tend to air on the side of caution and while it likely saves my butt on occasion, it very likely is the source of most of my issues as well.

Chuck,

To your point regarding the "right tool" for the job, I think what is most important is fully understand what it is that you're working to accomplish and if that task requires a special tool, it's great to have it. That said, in this instance I placed too great a confidence on this tool to ensure a proper installation and not enough emphasis on my own understanding of the operation itself. Live and learn! It's what I enjoy most about this hobby as there's no option but to continue learning.

The riding is pretty darn fun too!
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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by srankin »

LOL, the right force is always the question except of course when torque values or other specific measurements are in play. LOL, none of that for the races that I am aware of. A wise old mechanic told me one time, the length of a wrench determines the amount of torque needed for most of the time it is used.

The right tool can still cause a problem a case in point I was installing a rear main seal on my bike, using the BMW very complex special tool I borrowed from my local airhead shop. I was pressing things into place when there was a snap! Turns out, even with the centering tool, screw press and proper jig, I was as I say a gnat's hair off. the jig was caught just so slightly on the side and I managed to take a chip out of the tool, thank goodness it was plastic. Panic, then finally when I started breathing I disassembled the tool, and finished the Job. I got lucky the seal went in straight and proper.

LOL, that was fun using a BMW Bite my wallet expensive tool, I shudder to think what would have happened or if it would have happened using the cycleworks tool, or another method.

Hey, you got it in, and can ride, that is the best part. St.
Owner of a 84, R80RT and 78, R100RS

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Re: 1984 R80 G/S Steering Head Bearings

Post by Slash2 »

Well I'm the sort of fellow who sweats even while torquing fasteners to the factory recommended spec with a properly calibrated torque wrench though it depends somewhat on the fastener in question. Head bolts for example always seem to turn just an 1/8th further than I'd like and I'm praying for that comforting "crack" of the wrench.

Incidentally I tried my hand at installing the new rear main seal by hand as a few vets said was possible but got no where at all so I ponied up ($45) for the cycle works rear main installation tool which is essentially a fat disc with a shoulder to carry the seal and 5 holes to accommodate the flywheel bolts which are used to draw the seal into its seat. I have to say that using this fairly simple tool was most satisfying as I was able to easily draw the seal in by hand simply tightening opposing bolts while the tool did the heavy lifting.

I replaced every seal in the bike for the most part and I'm very pleased to report not a single drop on the floor of the garage in the first 300 miles.
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