Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

marktmaguire
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:19 am

Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by marktmaguire »

Hello, Just joined to see if I can get some assistance to help a family friend out and an old R60/6 in the UK.
My wifes friends parents are very elderly and will be vacating their home soon, they have a lovely black R60/6 that has been stored for at least 20 years in a workshop and they would like to hear it start & run before most likely parting with it.
I took a look at the weekend, it looks almost 100% original and complete apart from the perishing of rubber and chrome corrosion. I am a biker but I'm more of an old car guy and I'm sure I can get it to run!
I took the plugs out, lubed the cylinders, span it over on the starter and got oil pressure but no spark. I lifted the tank and started to check the wiring but ran out of time (and tools) to remove the front engine case to look at the points.
To my surprise all the electrics worked when connected to a good battery so no reason to assume she wouldn't start.
The fuel lines leak and the left side carb piston was stuck so I've applied some penetrating fluid before I go back next weekend.
So a couple of questions if I may.
Any direction on what to check once I've got at the points if I don't find something obvious like they are corroded closed? (I have pulled the clutch lever when turning over in case that prevents spark) I downloaded a wiring diagram but anything more specific would be helpful.
A source of parts in the UK if I wanted to replace the fuel hoses etc?
Lastly, despite getting her running or not I am likely to be trying to sell her on for them so any good contacts in the UK that might be interested and pay a fair price would be good. I'm in Surrey, close to Gatwick airport.
I'll try to add a few photo's.

Thanks, Mark.
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srankin
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:45 pm
Location: Spencerport, NY USA

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by srankin »

Hello, I am on the other side of the Atlantic but as far as parts go, I have dealt with Motobins https://www.motobins.co.uk, Flat racer https://www.flatracer.com/home/4533656956 and Motorwerkshttps://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Home/index.php

They have been pretty good to me in the past for parts.

As for getting the old bike running, you are on the right path so far. Unless mice got in and chewed up or built a nest in the electrics, there is not much that can go wrong with airhead electrical systems. Corroded points, would be the first thing I would check as well as the timing advance system, the swing weight should move freely. Once you get the points adjusted, and the timing set, the real work will begin.
The biggest problem with a bike which has been sitting a long time is gunk from old gas and the damage it can do. I also see in your pictures there looks to be a gas tank cover on the bike. Those may be fine for short time where they can be removed from time to time to prevent rust but for long term storage, they can cause rust in the tank both inside and outside. So, I would get a flashlight and inspect the inside of your gas tank to see what the bottom of the tank looks like. The condition of the liner should be good.

It might be a good thing to take the carbs off and give them a good soaking in carb cleaner and blow out the passages. For this I would get a hold of a Bing rebuild book or a good manual. The above mentioned companies will have rebuild kits for the carbs on this bike.
I talk about rebuilding the carbs and if the bike was stored with a dry tank, no gas in it or the carbs, you may get lucky and not have to do a lot of what I just wrote.

I would also change all the gear oils, the transmission, driveshaft and final drive. Check the old oil for milkiness from water. Moisture in the trans and other gear systems can cause a lot of damage. If the bike has been stored in a dry location, I don't think you will have a problem with it but it is best to check.

A few days work and it will be running again. Good luck. St.
Owner of a 84, R80RT and 78, R100RS

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schrader7032
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Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by schrader7032 »

Nice project! As for starting, have you confirmed you have spark? I understand you're going to check the points and get the timing right, but be sure to verify that you have a good spark. Take the plugs out and put them back in the high tension leads. Find a way to securely strap the plugs so that the threads are touching the engine fins. Then hit the starter. You are looking for a solid bluish spark. I think where I'm heading is that you may have some corrosion in the spark plug wires where they going into the coil towers.

And don't rule out a bad condenser. Probably will want to check and basically replace it. Also, be sure the valves are set to proper clearances...0.15mm intake and 0.2mm exhaust.

As for parts, I figure your best place would be Motobins.
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

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srankin
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Location: Spencerport, NY USA

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by srankin »

LOL, I'm sorry, I should have said the first thing I would check on a bike in long term storage (depending upon where it was stored) would be in fact to check for mouse infestation. I have been surprised over the years at the number of bikes coming into my friend's shop which had been sitting for a while and had become mouse houses. My own brother in law's bike had a large nest down inside the front cover of the engine amongst the alternator and points system. Lucky for him, they did little damage. I have seen bikes come in with major damage due to chewing and urine. As a side, when we got Wilbur's bike running, it spit seeds out the mufflers for the first few minutes it was running. St.
Owner of a 84, R80RT and 78, R100RS

marktmaguire
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:19 am

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by marktmaguire »

Thanks both for your replies, those links will be very helpful srankin.
There doesn't appear to be any mouse damage and the tank is in lovely condition on the outside, the inside looks and smells like red oxide paint. It has gunked the fuel taps, one does nothing and one leaks all the time.
I'm hoping to not mess about with timing, it ran when it was parked up and all I want to do is prove it will run, I won't be getting it road worthy, it will go to a new home for that so I'm hoping the points are corroded and it's nothing too complicated!

Schrader7032 - I have no spark, that is the problem that I hope is points related.

As much as it's tempting to get into it more I just don't have the time, if I can get it to start with a few drips of fuel that will be enough, rebuilding carbs etc is too much work and they want to sell it on anyway.

I appreciate the help so far.

marktmaguire
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:19 am

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by marktmaguire »

I managed to get a bit more time on this bike at the weekend but didn't make progress unfortunately.
The lack of spark is the problem. I removed the points and cleaned them up with fine emery although I couldn't remove all the marks on one side. I then realised I didn't have my feelers with me so I had to guess on the refitting, not ideal.
I have voltage at the points and the coils and the voltage appears to change as the points open/close. I checked the condenser and it appears to read fine also. The plug leads have resistance but without spec I don't know what I'm measuring.
It seems odd that I get no spark on either side.

So I think I need to get a manual, I assume this will give me the various spec I need and how to set the points timing and gap correctly.
In the mean time, as I have to travel to the bike with tools I'm thinking i could rig up a car coil, lead and sparkplug on a bench, once I know can re-create a spark by switching the coil I can test each coil, lead and plug when I get to the bike.
Any other suggestions?

What prevents the starter engaging and starting? Clutch lever, centre stand, anything like this I should bypass?

Thanks
Mark

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schrader7032
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Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by schrader7032 »

Definitely go back to basics on setting the points and timing. Regardless of timing, if you have 12v to the points and the points open, then you should have spark. Another place you can check for voltages...on the two coils under the tank, 12v is injected on the left side (as I recall), goes through the first coil, jumps on a small black wire to the second coil, through the second coil, and then to down to the capacitor. Put your voltmeter on the input side of the first coil...do you see 12v and then do you see the voltage go to zero? That's the points opening. Note that having 12v running through the coils for long periods of time is not good.

As for a bench set up, I'd pursue the basic of setting the ignition.

For the starter, the transmission must be in neutral or the clutch hand lever must be pulled in. These are "safety" features to prevent the starter from engaging with the engine is turning the flywheel.
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

marktmaguire
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:19 am

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by marktmaguire »

Thanks, yes I've been careful to not leave the ignition on for long for fear of burning the coils out. The wiring is exactly as you say, input on the left coil, small wire across to the right side coil and back.
Not helped by not having crocodile clips on my voltmeter, I need 3 arms!
As we are entering a lockdown in the UK I don't think I will be able to get to the bike for the next month so time to get a manual and do the theory side now!

I also seemed to think the ignition switch had too many positions, it seems to turn maybe 5 times, after 2 or 3 I have all the dash lights on, neutral, generator etc, I guess a look in the manual will explain.

Mark

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schrader7032
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Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by schrader7032 »

Mark -

You likely have a European model which I seem to recall had extra detents in the ignition switch. One of which is the headlights...my US /7 has constant-on headlights, so no switch position for that.
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

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srankin
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Location: Spencerport, NY USA

Re: Bringing a '75 R60/6 back to life - UK

Post by srankin »

There is no side stand interlock in the starter motor circuit, a bit of luck for you and one less thing to worry about.

Kurt is doing a good job. I have nothing else to add but the above. Good Luck, cheers, St.
Owner of a 84, R80RT and 78, R100RS

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