I did some work, now I have some questions...

[jonnyincognito]

Hey everyone,

Ordered some gaskets, and dropped the pan and valve covers. I was surprised to find magnets in the oil pan already. The gaskets all looked in good shape too, although I'll swap them anyway. I also noted that the center nut for the valve cover was of two different sizes. It was 10mm on the right and 14mm on the left. Is this typical? I'll have to find some feelers this week and lash the valves. Has anyone used rare earth magnets? I figure the stronger the magnet the better off I am. It appears that there's a handful of the type of magnets used to keep cabinet doors closed in the oil pan right now. Doesn't seem to be any metal on them though.

Another question, is there a trick to getting the sidestand spring off without having to remove the sidestand? I spent about twenty minutes trying to pop that sucker off before I just pulled the pin and removed the sidestand. The spring is in the way of an oil pan nut.

Yet another, is there a common tool I can pick up that can be used to remove he exhaust nuts? I have an R60/2 btw. I was thinking about pulling the engine out soon and sending it off to have the slingers done, but I immediately realized without some of the specialty tools I'm going to have a hard go of it.

Also, I noticed that the lower section of the...side barrels?...are black while the upper and valve cover are unpainted. Is this also typical? I guess I'm curious if work has been done on this engine, because I was led to believe it was just well maintained and nothing besides keeping it in tune was ever needed or done. It's always a crap shoot when the previous owner didn't maintain records!

Joshua

[schrader7032]

When I got my R69S, I also noticed that the acorn nuts were different sizes. It's not supposed to be that way...I think they're supposed to be either 13 or 14mm. I bought the right size so I didn't have to switch wrenches.

Vech sells rare earth magnets. For my R69S, I just used some magnets I found at the local big box hardware store. For my R25/2, I bought some magnets from Vech, long strip ones. Man are were they tough to separate, they were strong.

I think I used some vise grips on my sidestand spring...I took the portion near the frame off first, not at the oil pan. Another trick may be to use a roll of pennies if you get them in.... When the spring is in its extended state, see if you can push a penny between a pair of coils; if you can get to the opposite side on the next coil, insert another penny, and so on alternating side. Then retract the sidestand so that it normally would be less extended. That might give you some length to play with. This may not work for a spring that is in place but it works if you're trying to install a new tight spring. It works best if you can bend the spring, insert the penny, bend the spring the other direction, insert a penny, etc.

Since you probably don't have the finned exhaust nuts, there's a special pin wrench that usually comes in the tool kit to get those nuts off. The finned nuts also have a special wrench that interleaves between the fins. You should probably get the right tool for the job, thought! But you might consider a strap wrench. Also be aware off how the nuts turn when coming off. If they start to turn and stop, you should quit working on the nut and use a hacksaw to cut it off. When the nut begins to bind, the threads on the exhaust port are beginning to gaul. Not good. Use the hacksaw to cut the nut in two places opposite each other (the cut is parallel to the header), then use a screwdriver or a chisel to open up the nut so it can be slipped off.

My R69S cylinder barrels are painted black...I cleaned them up and repainted them when I had the engine down for slinger cleaning. The heads and valve covers are unpainted aluminum. I think that is pretty standard. Here's some photos of the R60/2:

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photopages/photosr60-2.htm

[miller6997]

I agree with the technique of using coins in the spring coils. If you deploy the stand, the spring will be stretched enough to insert pennies, or washers, or dimes. Then when you fold up the stand, the spring should be loose enough to pull off with a pair of pliers or leverage off with a small screwdriver. This also works like a charm on the center stand springs.

For the oil pan, I never used anything other than the magnetic drain plug. If there are filings loose in there, that should be sufficient to pick them up, like the canary in the mineshaft.

[jonnyincognito]

Cool, thanks for the info guys. The penny trick will probably be used to install the spring. I was able to get the stand off easy enough, which the spring is attached to, but it might be a bear getting it back on after I reinstall the stand. I could get the little hook on the stand side to move a little but not enough to get something to grab it. The problem is there's just nothing to lever against so I figured there was probably a trick I didn't know about!

There didn't seem to be any metal in the oilpan, on the magnets or otherwise, but I didn't run my fingers across the magnets yet. I heard rare earth magnets are ridiculously strong, and that's why I was leaning towards using them. I see a lot of people talking about magnetic plugs, but no one states where to get them. Is this something Vech also offers? I'm guessing Auto Zone won't have the correct size bolt. The only place I did see metal bits was in the valve covers...I think. It was a few days ago! There was some gunk built up at the bottom of them and I thought I saw some shiny bits in there. A bit worrying, so I'll have to check again when I get back to it this week.

I don't have the special exhaust nut tool or any of the tools for that matter...that I know of. I haven't taken the bike down to the locksmith yet...but its on the to do list. The previous owner couldn't find the tool box key and I don't want to do anything silly like drill it out. He couldn't recall if there was a tool kit, so I'm guessing there isn't. I figure that a locksmith should be able to pick it easy enough and make me a new key once it's open. Maybe I'll be lucky, but if anyone knows of some odd ball tool for something crazy like light sockets that just happens to work for this application let me know!

As far as the valve cover acorn nuts Schrader, did you have to change the stud when you replaced one so they were the same size? It's interesting that yours was different too, and it's not like these are off the self nuts.

Alright, thanks again for the info! I'm sure I'll have many more questions soon!
Joshua

[schrader7032]

Vech is where I get just about everything I need. He has the magnetic drain plugs. The valve cover nuts or acorn nuts were the same thread pitch but just different sizes across the flats.

One of these...you'll need to call them:

11 13 0 007 104M--$8.00--plug oil pan cad with magnet no crush washer M14x1.5 1950-1969
11 13 0 007 104MS--$11.80--plug oil pan ss with magnet no crush washer M14x1.5 1950-1969
11 13 0 007 162--$13.30--oil drain plug M16x1.5 w/magnet

[jonnyincognito]

Cool, I'll get one prior to the next oil change. I filled it up today, so I don't want to drain it just for a plug heh. I have some more questions now though.

I installed the oil pan after cleaning the screen. Everything seemed fine, although the retaining clip for the two screen bolts has seen a lot of use. Seems more and more like someone has taken regular care of the bike. The oil pan was flat too, no need to straighten it, so who ever installed it previously was pretty good at it. I only hope I did as good a job. 1/4 turn past snug!

I picked up some feeler gauges. Opened the manual this morning. Set the timing mark to OT for the left side so its TDC. Checked the left side, a little off, but not much. The rear valve was too tight, the front too loose. The manual says 'slight drag' on the feeler. As this is the first time I've done this can someone tell me if by slight I am better off having it slightly loose or slightly tight on the feeler. Should it be barely touching the feeler guage or tight enough to scrape it a bit? I opted for a bit tight so the 'slight drag' was obvious. I turned the page of the manual, started to read about the right side, and it just says to bring it to TDC. Okay, how the heck do I do that? Is there a mark? I took some time and found that the timing marks show an F and an S too. I spun it until I saw that both lifters were both closed as near as I could tell, but is there a way to make sure the cyl is at the top of compression? Does it matter, or is it fine as long as it's under the compression stroke? If there's some special tool I need to buy, I'll go get one...I'm just a bit new at this type of thing.

[schrader7032]

It is important to be sure you're setting the valves on the side that is at TDC on the compression stroke. Two ways to do this. One is to remove the spark plugs and put your thumb over the hole on the left side. Turn the engine until you feel pressure against your thumb. Stop turning and begin looking at the timing marks through the hole. Keep turning, slowly, until you see the OT mark. Now you're ready to set vavles on the left side. For the right side, turn the engine 360 degrees to get to TDC at compression on the right side. You can also do the thumb thing on the right side, but one revolution is all it takes.

The second way to do this is to leave the plugs in and put the bike into 3 or 4th gear. I get behind the bike and grab the spokes and start rotating the wheel. Watch the valves. As soon as you see the intake valve open and then begin to close, you're beginning to approach compression. Step back to the left side of the bike and with your right hand, bump the rear wheel a little bit at a time until you get to OT. Set the valves. For the right side, again, rotate the engine 306 degrees.

As for "drag", What I have always shot for is having to work at getting the feeler gage in. It's not like the gage will fall out on its own...that's too loose. If you're shooting for 0.006" and you can't get a 0.007" in the gap, then you must be at 0.006 or pretty damn close. The drag is noticeable for me and I try to get the same feeling from all four valves.

If I was in town, I'd be glad to help with the physical demonstration, but at the moment I'm "vacating"..

[jonnyincognito]

Hey Kurt,

I'm a bit confused. 360 degrees would bring the left cyl back to TDC wouldn't it? Or is it that it would then be off the compression stroke and on an exhaust stroke? How do I know that the engine has gone 360 degrees, just by taking it all the way around until it says OT again? Man, I might have to draw this out so I can get my head around it.

It's late, and my mind is working it out...I think I got it. I was thinking eight strokes not four. I forgot that a stroke is just one down or one up motion, not a complete up and down cycle.

So valves closed on left side, OT showing, set the valves. Rotate one full rotation, valves on right side closed, OT showing again, set the valves. Correct?

I set the valves like you state too. I was just concerned because when I checked them the feeler slipped in really easy on one, and it was really tight on the other, so I didn't have a point of reference.

[schrader7032]

So valves closed on left side, OT showing, set the valves. Rotate one full rotation, valves on right side closed, OT showing again, set the valves. Correct?

That's correct. But it's important that when you're setting the valves, the side in question must be at OT on the compression stroke. You determine that by either feeling the compression with your thumb or watch the valve action so that when the intake valve begins to close, you're also beginning to compress the air mixture. So, the next time you see OT, that will be TDC on the compression stroke.

[jonnyincognito]

Alright, I'll watch for all that and check the left again. I think the manual just said make sure the valves were closed and it showed OT. It looked like they were closed, and I moved the rockers to see if they were a bit loose to make sure. They were, so I set the gap. I figured if either one was tight it would indicate that it was applying pressure to the valve and that I didn't have it right. I'll double check the left shortly and set the right.

As always, thanks for the info!

Joshua