Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

808Airhead
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Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by 808Airhead »

There was also a R69S that sold for 15K Euros.....thanks for putting up that list.
Thomas M.
R69s - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3

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Darryl.Richman
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Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by Darryl.Richman »

The prices Jeff posted don't reflect the 19% German VAT tax that was also charged for each bike. There were also a bunch of airheads that went in this auction as well.
--Darryl Richman

808Airhead
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Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by 808Airhead »

19%?????? Remind me not to live in Germany.
Thomas M.
R69s - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3

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Peter D. Nettesheim
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19% tax on Neutkens bikes

Post by Peter D. Nettesheim »

I was questioning this statement in the catalog. The people at Bonhams informed the crowd that the 19% Mswt tax was due only on the 15% commission Bonhams was charging so the actual proper factor to figure the total on the bikes is as follows
Sale price in Euros X 1.76775 to get the price in US dollars including the 15% buyers fee and the 19% on the 15% buyers fee.(1.50US to 1 Euro).
The R32 that sold didn't have matching numbers and although the frame and engine were both built in 1924, they didn't leave the factory together. The R63 which was cobbled together from pieces and sold for over $104,000.
The R16 hit almost $90,000.

The interesting thing is that none of the high dollar bikes were sold to any of the established large collectors I know (OK, I don't know them all). I attended the auction and won't say too much on the originality and condition other than more than 50% pf the bikes were wrong numbers. How difficult is it to find a R25/3 with matching numbers? What about a R50 or R26? Look at the catalog on line to see if even these easy to find bikes had matching (correct) numbers and you can imagine what the older ones were.

The best bikes were an original unrestored series 1 R2 and the R3. I bid on both and got neither.

Peter N.
It was a great time to meet all who are serious collectors even if they bought nothing.

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RainyRider
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Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by RainyRider »

A novice question: Is the frame number stamped under the tag, (on the actual frame), as well as on the frame tag and engine?

Reason for asking: The frame tag on my 1957 R-50 is missing. However, the number is stamped on the frame between the rivet holes. It looks professionally done, not just someone hand punching the numbers while changing out a frame, (perfect number alignment, clear numbers, same depth of imprint, etc).

In fact, after taking a second look, even the "style" of numbers is the same on the frame and engine, especially the "7" and "2" - I think I may have just answered my own question...

In any case, matching or not, it is slowly coming closer to its original beauty...

fred t.
Raymond, WA.

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jeff dean
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Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by jeff dean »

Here are revised US prices with taxes and fees per Peter's comment above:

Bonham Willy Neutkens
Auction Results by Price
--------------------
1924 R32 $193,126
1828 R63 $119,942
1931 R16 $101,645
1924 R42 $62,516
1929 R62 $56,874
1927 R42 $50,823
1930 R11 $48,790
1942 R75 $48,790
1953 R67/2 $46,757
1928 R52 $44,724
1939 R12 $44,724
1928 R52 $42,691
1942 R75 $42,691
1936 R5 $40,659
1934 R11 $36,592
1939 R66 $36,592
1938 R51 $26,428
1939 R51 $26,428
1950 R51/2 $24,395
1938 R71 $22,362
1940 R12 $20,329
1938 R61 $16,772
1936 R3 $16,252
1931 R2 $14,637
1932 R4 $14,231
1951 R51/3 $14,231
1935 R12 $13,214
1953 R67/2 $12,197
1961 R60/2 $12,197
1933 R4 $11,181
1937 R35 $11,181
1939 R23 $11,181
1937 R20 $9,961
1933 R2 $9,758
1948 EMW $8,335
1951 R25 $8,131
1950 R24 $7,725
1952 R25/2 $6,505
1963 R27 $6,505
1957 R26 $6,301
1954 EMW $6,098
1955 AWO $4,676
[h3]Jeff Dean
Friend of the Marque, Co-Founder VBMWMO (1972)
http://bmwdean.com --- http://bmwdean.com/slash2.htm[/h3]

[img]http://bmwdean.com/r75-200.jpg[/img]

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schrader7032
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Location: San Antonio, TX

Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by schrader7032 »

A novice question: Is the frame number stamped under the tag, (on the actual frame), as well as on the frame tag and engine?

Fred -

On my R69S, the number is three places...the stamped plate on the front of the steering tube, stamped into the frame on the right side neck of the steering tube, and on the RH side of the engine above the pushrod tubes. It may have been located in different places on various bikes, but IIRC most /2 bikes are like that. Your R50 is generally considered a /2, at least of the /2 era.

Kurt in S.A.
Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

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Peter D. Nettesheim
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Further clairification

Post by Peter D. Nettesheim »

Jeff,
The factor I gave is the multiplyer for the actual amount bid by the bidder. The figure that you see from the Bonhams result page represents the actual bid price plus the buyers fee so you cant use my multiplyer for those figures as it would inflate it even further. You need to take the 15% out of the price in the bonhams result page and then multiply by 1.76775. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks.
Peter

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jeff dean
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Re: Further clairification

Post by jeff dean »

Jeff,
The factor I gave is the multiplyer for the actual amount bid by the bidder. The figure that you see from the Bonhams result page represents the actual bid price plus the buyers fee so you cant use my multiplyer for those figures as it would inflate it even further. You need to take the 15% out of the price in the bonhams result page and then multiply by 1.76775. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks.
Peter

Oops. Thanks.

Now I am confused beyond all hope. :oops:
[h3]Jeff Dean
Friend of the Marque, Co-Founder VBMWMO (1972)
http://bmwdean.com --- http://bmwdean.com/slash2.htm[/h3]

[img]http://bmwdean.com/r75-200.jpg[/img]

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glasuritblack
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Willy Neutkens Auction Results from Munich

Post by glasuritblack »

I think what Peter is saying is to use the hammer price (not the full sale price which was already inclusive of the buyers premium), then multiply by 1.76775.

Let's try this using the R32 as an example. It sold for a hammer price of 95,000 euro.

95,000 euro x 1.76775 = 167,936.25

I think what happened was that you used the full sale price of 109,250 euro which already included the buyers premium. The result from that calculation effectively doubled the buyers premium, which gave the very high 193,126 number.

Does this make sense or am I reading the auction information wrong?

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