Relacing wheels for sidecar

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:31 am

Huggett also offers stainles spokes in a couple sizes, and his are chrome plated to go with your steel wheels.

If you haven't laced a wheel before, I found it to be a time consuming process that required a lot of patience on my part. Check the links page on the main web site for Lonnie Walker's page on lacing wheels.

(I laced four of the older, half width hub wheels, so I don't have direct experience with the straight pull full width hubs, there are a few more tricks to them.)

tricyclerob · Post by **tricyclerob** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Darryl, I know what you mean. I have done 4 wheels total, and I still think it involves some level of witchcraft and vodoo, as well as making the correct sacrifice.
Well, maybe not that bad but close.
I did read the article you mentioned and it is one of the most concise I've ever read on wheel lacing. I think the straight pull spokes are probably a bit easier.
I guess my question is, on the later, 1959, wheels, is the spoke guage determined by the nipple, or is there a max. size of nipple that will go through the holes in the wheel. And how about the hole in the hub, can that accept a larger guage? And is it worth going through all this or are the stock sizes up to the task? rj

Allan.Atherton · Post by **Allan.Atherton** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:54 pm

... this might be the time to re-lace w/stainless... Having no experience, I bought a truing and balancing stand, and ordered two set of spokes for my Weinmann alloy rim from Vech. I laced one wheel at a time, following the other wheel as a guide. I used no jig for offset, but merely went round and round tightening each nipple the same number of turns by finger, until it came time to use the wrench. Then I did same number of turns by wrench, until the nipples became tight enough to put the wheel in the stand. Truing then involved wrenching various nipples a tiny fraction of a turn at a time. The wheels turned out perfectly centered and true.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roundel/sets/59592/

Next I tried a Steib sidecar wheel, which used inner and outer hooked spokes. These I got from Buchanan. Since there was only one wheel, I took large photos before I removed the old spokes. This wheel turned out fine, too.

Lacing is not hard. It just takes concentration and patience to not make a mistake. You have to correctly keep track of what you are doing to the wheel, as you can turn the wrench in two directions and you are alternating between two sides of the rim. If you get mixed up about what does what, you can turn nipples the wrong way for awhile, and not be able to tell which nipples they were. And it helps to have a proper truing stand to watch what the effect of what you are doing.

However, the first wheel I had laced semi-locally required a two hour drive each way to deliver and pick up the wheel, only to find there were problems and they had to be done again, two hours each way again.\

The alternative was shipping wheels across the US to Buchanan and paying them, and that is when I decided to have the freedom, control and economy of doing them myself.

tricyclerob · Post by **tricyclerob** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:23 am

Allen, I bought a wheel balance jig which worked out fine. The cost of shipping can be noticable for 2 hubs and 2 rims. I think the biggest motovation is being able to say that I did them myself. Many people who are very good mechanics, would not think about relacing wheels and it feels good to be able say,"I did it".
Anyone have any info on the spoke guage question? Stock, oversize? rj

schrader7032 · Post by **schrader7032** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:55 am

Here's what Vech had to say on the Yahoo /2 forum...he's in the business; you might want to call him and get additional input.

Kurt in S.A.

------------------

1. original rims (be they aluminum or chrome) had 4 planes of spoke holes.
look at them closely and you'll see it.

2. ALL the new rims, (be they chrome steel of German origin or aluminum
Excell rims) have TWO planes of spoke holes. (I don't make them, just sell
them).
This puts the spokes closer to each other where they cross.

3. Of the chrome rims out there, the German ones have better chrome. The
Italian ones peel the chrome. That is why I sell the German ones only.

4. The Excell rims are clear coated aluminum to prevent oxidation. They
were manufactured as blank rims, with only one hole for the valve stem. They
have to be drilled to the spoke pattern (that is done before you buy them).
Because of where the Japanese put the valve stem hole, if you drill the BMW
original pattern (remember, except not in 4 planes only two) the valve stem
would come out where the spokes cross and you could not put air in the tire.
So they have been cross drilled. What that means is the pattern is shifted,
and the spokes now run from the right side of the rim to the left side of the
hub, like a brit bike.
Yes, they lace up, and true just fine.

5. New Stainless spokes are made in two diameters, 4 mm and 3.5 mm

6. If you use 4mm diameter spokes (such as Bucannon's) they will touch for
sure, where they cross on the new rims.

7. if you use 3.5 mm spokes they almost touch. We're talking real, real
close but not quite. (that is why I had made, and sell, 3.5 mm diameter ones
only for 56 - 69 BMW's)

Allan.Atherton · Post by **Allan.Atherton** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:27 pm

Here's what Vech had to say...
6. If you use 4mm diameter spokes (such as Bucannon's) they will touch for
sure, where they cross on the new rims.
7. if you use 3.5 mm spokes they almost touch. We're talking real, real
close but not quite. (that is why I had made, and sell, 3.5 mm diameter ones
only for 56 - 69 BMW's)
That's one of the problems when I had my first set of wheels laced locally (2 hours away). I gave the lacer spoke sets from Buchanan, they were thick, and they touched.
The other problem was I had bought cheap chrome rims and the nipples cracked the chrome, evidently because the too-big nipples chafed the edges of the holes. I had to rechrome the rims and get spoke sets from Vech, which worked.
When I laced my own rims a few years later, I made sure to buy the spoke sets from Vech and they worked fine again.

tricyclerob · Post by **tricyclerob** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:31 am

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I will soon be sending even more of my $ to vech. rj

tricyclerob · Post by **tricyclerob** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:02 am

I've not yet sent my $ to Vech for new s.s. spokes, but I was taking a close look at my wheels tonight. I found the front to have 3.5mm spokes[cad.plate] and the rear[chrome] has 4.0mm.
In addition, the rear spokes touch where they cross to the point of actually bending. [Which Vech mentions as a problem with the 4.0mm spokes]
More noticable are that the fronts are touching as well, and poss. also have a very slight bend. In Mr.Walkers write up, he mentions this problem.
He states "Properly assembled, the crossing spokes of a BMW /2 wheel will miss each other with some clearance to spare. Improperly assembled, the crossing spokes will not only touch each other, they will be forced to bend around each other. This is not only incorrect, it is just hard to assemble that way and will result in a wheel that is not as strong as a properly assembled wheel".
Is this a great "hobby" or what?

VBMWMO · Post by **VBMWMO** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:52 pm

I have a '59 R69 "rider" with just about everything done but the wheels. I put the ural s/c back on and like it enough that it may stay on. I was thinking this might be the time to re-lace w/stainless, and to possibly go with a heavier guage spoke. I have the steel wheels and it looks like Bucannhans offers a heavier guage spoke. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this? thanks,rj

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