start with a trans oil change 'just because it's a good thing'
more so if your not sure when it was done (ever) last.
Either MORRIS Elite SAE40 (cold - slow city riding) or MORRIS Elite SAE50
(for hot climate and high-speed 'SPORT" riding)
Sometimes this case is just simply your not 'riding'
the bike 'hard' enough ! Shifting at lazy engine RPM's
will result in incomplete gear dog engagement - along with some thickened
gooy oil present in the trans. Try delaying your shifting till the motor
is reving at 5,000 rpm and see if the trans doesn't respond better
when 'giving it some stick'.
A clutch that is stuck - seizing on the trans splined
shaft will also result in a 'poor shift engagement'
Basic clutch lever (at the rear of the gearbox)
and cable adjustment (at the handlebar lever) should be the first
thing to check after the oil change.
If your unsure about all this and 'How To ', then
purchase a reprint copy of the excellent
BMW Owners Handbook which covers all maintanence -
like a shop manual. Buy a copy from the great folks at
BOB's BMW , Jessup, MD. http://bobsbmw.com/
order MORRIS lubricants from Robert Bauer at
http://www.ahrma.org/supply.htm
MORRIS is an English company and produces 'modern'
lubricants tailored to our old Non-Filter lubrication motors.
I have been very pleased with the results in my 1964 R27
which is used 'HARD' in high speed events like the MOTOGIRO
in Vermont.
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R60/2 Slipping out of gear
shifting - gear pops out -
VBMWMO#5514- '64 R27 15K #383851 - '86 R65 22K #6128390 - Retired m/c road racer (1971-2000) - Former M-Benz Star Tech 19 years, BMW auto master tech, BMW bike cert tech 27 years. Now retired to Hillsboro, NH.
R60/2 Slipping out of gear
I agree with c.d above, easiest and cheapest place to start is the trans oil, i did this a few months ago and it's improved gear changing by 25%. It's not a sure fix for any serious problem however it's a smart way to start the rectification process, it's easy and inexpensive, my two favourite words.
Cheers Peter
Cheers Peter
R42, R12, R51/3, R69S
R60/2 Slipping out of gear
Let the drained oil sit in it's container overnight and then check what is in the bottom. A little bit of shiny metal is not to bad, a whole lot is, big chunks are serious. Good luck.
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jerothe7301
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:02 am
Thanks for all the advice
Thanks folks! I'll give reccomendations a try and let you know what happens..
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Allan.Atherton
- Posts: 503
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Re: R60/2 Slipping out of gear
... R60/2 has been slipping out of gear... when I have low torque on the engine and most of the time in third gear. Also Shifting from one gear to another (again without a lot of torque) sometimes doesn’t always reach the next gear...
I think you are describing two separate issues. One is losing engagement, and the other is not engaging.
When I had a transmission that slipped out of gear, it was due to internal wear and required a rebuild.
However, on my good transmissions, I often feel a shift not engaging under light acceleration. It happens maybe every 30 to 50 shifts under that condition. I consider it normal, and I just keep pressure on the shifter until the clutch is released. During the releasing of the clutch, the gear dogs "go home" that little extra bit needed for engagement. In all my shifts I keep pressure on the shifter until the shift is complete, and so am never surprised and never fail to complete the shift.
The alternative is to be surprised by the resistance, conclude the shift has ended and failed at that point, and release the shifter and the the clutch, ending up in a false neutral, where you either have to come to a stop or face severe gear clashing.
I think you are describing two separate issues. One is losing engagement, and the other is not engaging.
When I had a transmission that slipped out of gear, it was due to internal wear and required a rebuild.
However, on my good transmissions, I often feel a shift not engaging under light acceleration. It happens maybe every 30 to 50 shifts under that condition. I consider it normal, and I just keep pressure on the shifter until the clutch is released. During the releasing of the clutch, the gear dogs "go home" that little extra bit needed for engagement. In all my shifts I keep pressure on the shifter until the shift is complete, and so am never surprised and never fail to complete the shift.
The alternative is to be surprised by the resistance, conclude the shift has ended and failed at that point, and release the shifter and the the clutch, ending up in a false neutral, where you either have to come to a stop or face severe gear clashing.
Re: R60/2 Slipping out of gear
..My 65 R60/2 has been slipping out of gear a bit from time to time. ...
I think its normal. Your description matches my experience to a Tee - my R60 gearbox has been rebuilt, the clutch is brand new and it does exactly as yours. I also remember when the R75/5 came out, reviewers in Germany commented on the improved gear box behaviour referring to the clunkyness and jumping-out-of gear of the old model. Enjoy the character of your R60 - there is nothing like it!
Jim
I think its normal. Your description matches my experience to a Tee - my R60 gearbox has been rebuilt, the clutch is brand new and it does exactly as yours. I also remember when the R75/5 came out, reviewers in Germany commented on the improved gear box behaviour referring to the clunkyness and jumping-out-of gear of the old model. Enjoy the character of your R60 - there is nothing like it!
Jim
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Allan.Atherton
- Posts: 503
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Re: R60/2 Slipping out of gear
... My 65 R60/2 has been slipping out of gear a bit from time to time. It’s typically when I have low torque on the engine and most of the time in third gear....
Likely after downshifting to ascend a long hill at light throttle in 3rd? Perhaps the lever was not pressed down firmly until it stopped. Just flicking it down may not completely engage the gear so it can slip out on a long climb.
Likely after downshifting to ascend a long hill at light throttle in 3rd? Perhaps the lever was not pressed down firmly until it stopped. Just flicking it down may not completely engage the gear so it can slip out on a long climb.
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bombard4101
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R60/2 Slipping out of gear
I apologize for the late response to your topic, haven't been in here in a while, shame on me!!
Have you had the trans out of the bike at all? I ask because when I rebuilt my '66 a few years ago and time came to put the trans back in, I didn't know for sure which way the bolt holding the shift lever on was supposed to go. IF I looked at the book, I could have seen it with the nut facing up OR down, very confusing. So, I reasoned the pin should go in from the top, for ease of insertion and removal. I remember that after I got the bike running, the shifter would hit the exhaust pipe ever so slightly, but I attributed that to new pipes and maybe something out of alignment. It so EVER so slight, the only way I noticed it was a "tink" sound when the bike was off and I was shifting thru the gears. After that, the bike would occcasionally jump out of gear, mostly after downshifting, say, going around a corner. I leaned to live with (and expect) it. Then one day I ran acrsoss an article by Duane, a noted BMW mechanic, about aligning the tranny. It says the pin needs to go in from the bottom, because the flats on the pin and shaft will actually "clock" the shift lever. Looking at it on the bench, with the lever going from the top and the bottom, you can see the difference. After putting the pin in the "correct" way (up from the bottom, with nut on top) my problem was solved. No more jumping out of gear, no hitting the pipe. And after following Duanes simple trans alignment instructions, the bike is quieter, too. Here's the link to his site, much wisdom to be found there:
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/trans/index.htm
You do need to pull the trans, which means everything rear of it too, but it's not a big job.
Sorry for being long winded and late, hope this helps you or someone
Jer
Have you had the trans out of the bike at all? I ask because when I rebuilt my '66 a few years ago and time came to put the trans back in, I didn't know for sure which way the bolt holding the shift lever on was supposed to go. IF I looked at the book, I could have seen it with the nut facing up OR down, very confusing. So, I reasoned the pin should go in from the top, for ease of insertion and removal. I remember that after I got the bike running, the shifter would hit the exhaust pipe ever so slightly, but I attributed that to new pipes and maybe something out of alignment. It so EVER so slight, the only way I noticed it was a "tink" sound when the bike was off and I was shifting thru the gears. After that, the bike would occcasionally jump out of gear, mostly after downshifting, say, going around a corner. I leaned to live with (and expect) it. Then one day I ran acrsoss an article by Duane, a noted BMW mechanic, about aligning the tranny. It says the pin needs to go in from the bottom, because the flats on the pin and shaft will actually "clock" the shift lever. Looking at it on the bench, with the lever going from the top and the bottom, you can see the difference. After putting the pin in the "correct" way (up from the bottom, with nut on top) my problem was solved. No more jumping out of gear, no hitting the pipe. And after following Duanes simple trans alignment instructions, the bike is quieter, too. Here's the link to his site, much wisdom to be found there:
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/trans/index.htm
You do need to pull the trans, which means everything rear of it too, but it's not a big job.
Sorry for being long winded and late, hope this helps you or someone
Jer
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Allan.Atherton
- Posts: 503
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R60/2 Slipping out of gear
... the pin needs to go in from the bottom, because the flats on the pin and shaft will actually "clock" the shift lever....
Two situations:
When I bought a "restored" R60/2, the shift lever would hit frame before fully engaging any gear going down, so transmission could could rarely be gotten into 1st gear. Transmission would jump out of 1st gear almost immediately, and 2nd gear very soon after. This was because the pin was installed upside down and was contacting the frame before full travel of the lever.
On my present R69US with 11,000 and 7 years miles since transmission rebuild, the transmission has two times slipped out of 3rd gear. This has only happened after encountering a long steep grade and down shifting into 3d gear, then holding speed while climbing in 3rd gear for a long time. I theorized that I had not pushed the lever down as hard as I should. I then began pushing the lever down more positively into 3rd gear on such grades, and the problem has not recurred.
Two situations:
When I bought a "restored" R60/2, the shift lever would hit frame before fully engaging any gear going down, so transmission could could rarely be gotten into 1st gear. Transmission would jump out of 1st gear almost immediately, and 2nd gear very soon after. This was because the pin was installed upside down and was contacting the frame before full travel of the lever.
On my present R69US with 11,000 and 7 years miles since transmission rebuild, the transmission has two times slipped out of 3rd gear. This has only happened after encountering a long steep grade and down shifting into 3d gear, then holding speed while climbing in 3rd gear for a long time. I theorized that I had not pushed the lever down as hard as I should. I then began pushing the lever down more positively into 3rd gear on such grades, and the problem has not recurred.
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Allan.Atherton
- Posts: 503
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
R60/2 Slipping out of gear
... I theorized that I had not pushed the lever down as hard as I should. I then began pushing the lever down more positively into 3rd gear on such grades, and the problem has not recurred.
To amplify,in downshifting to 3rd, my shift lever does need to be pushed. It slips or falls smoothly down into 3rd gear with a little blip of the throttle and a touch of pressure. My theory is that a touch of pressure does not fully engage 3rd gear. No problem in normal riding. But on those rare occasions when a long climb is encountered that requires cruising in 3rd gear for longer than 30 seconds, there is enough time for the semi-engaged gear to jump out.
To amplify,in downshifting to 3rd, my shift lever does need to be pushed. It slips or falls smoothly down into 3rd gear with a little blip of the throttle and a touch of pressure. My theory is that a touch of pressure does not fully engage 3rd gear. No problem in normal riding. But on those rare occasions when a long climb is encountered that requires cruising in 3rd gear for longer than 30 seconds, there is enough time for the semi-engaged gear to jump out.