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Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Allan.Atherton
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by Allan.Atherton »

I would say the bike is an unrestored original. I doubt that it has only 28 miles. I think it likely has between a few hundred to a few thousand miles, and has been stored under ideal climate-controlled conditions.

Oil Pan: The "sand blasting" from the front wheel could not possibly happen in 28 miles. Depending on the road conditions, it seems it would take between a few hundred and a few thousand miles.

Battery: Replace that battery immediately. It is leaking electrolyte at the terminals (causing the corrosion). And it does not have sealed caps with manifold venting into a tube to the ground. This battery can put fumes and droplets of electrolyte on the priceless original paint job. Get a Yuasa.

Seat: Top looks like new cover over poorly cut pad. The pad should not show its sharp edge. Bottom should have a rubber cover over springs to prevent weight of passenger from scratching fender. Original foam is usually aged orange and crumbly by now. Could be a repro or rebuilt seat, or an original seat not as well made as others.

Power "Adapter": Power socket is for the sidecar lights. Enduro bags were a US-made accessory.

Rubber parts: Look too good to be original, with exception of air tube rubbers which are cracked. Yet if bike was restored, the airtube rubbers would be new. Fuel lines have been replaced, with smooth on one side and braided on other. Battery strap still has new powder film on it, and almost no cracking. Life of these straps is only about 5 years before they age and crack badly. I have a BMW-logo strap that came off of one of my /2s around 2001, yet new-ordered straps don't have the logo. I would say the logo strap dates to 10-15 years ago when such straps were still in the parts system.

Speedo: Is either original, or NOS, or restored. New speedos are not available with trip meter. If restored, miles could have been zeroed, though most shops won't do this.

Wire Clips: The flat metal wire clips are still available, but come unpainted and must be sprayed. The ones on the bike are most likely original.

haole11
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:27 pm

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by haole11 »

Hi Allan,

Thanks for the input on this bike. Its pretty amazing to hear that you think the paint is original. How confident are you of this assessment? I could provide more photos if you like.

I just don't see signs of a paint restoration nor do I see signs that most of the bolts on the engine (or body) have had a wrench to them. I am not an expert, but I know enough to determine this bike is unique. Some minor parts have been changed (petcock, gas lines, battery etc) but I think thats about it.

If you were me, what would you do with this bike? Do you think this bike should be riden or preserved by someone who would give it a good home? I bought a bike to ride around town every once in a while. I feel like I have an obligation to preserve it or sell it to someone who would really appreciate it.

Thanks for your input,

Phil

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Darryl.Richman
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Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by Darryl.Richman »

I think that it's more likely that the bike has been restored. Maybe Allan can speak to the pinstriping in particular, as I know that he had bought a couple of these bikes new, and I didn't start riding until the 1980s. All of the original stripes I've seen are milky, at least in parts of the striping. These, however, are uniformly opaque, and perfectly pulled around the tank. They look just like the stripes on my newly painted and striped R51/3.

I think the exhaust pipes show a lot of bluing, more than would be possible in 28 miles. IMHO, this would be bluing that would be more appropriate for 1,000 miles, at least.

I wonder also about the engine front cover. This is the 2nd edition cover, with a molding in it for the camshaft tachometer drive mounting. But the engine itself has a separate oil pump cover, which was a change made to provide a more direct, secure mounting for a tach drive. At some point BMW switched over to the third style front cover, with the bulbous lower half, that they had begun using on the R69S. Combined with the 3rd version of the forks, with the extremely flattened cross brace, I think the front cover may have been replaced, perhaps because of an accident.

Also, besides the fuel line being changed, this bike has a Karcoma petcock. While this is a normal upgrade, the particular petcock is a 90* angle item, which I believe didn't become available until the 80s sometime. This would indicate that the bike was used at that point in time, or later. Supporting the idea that the bike has seen more use is the fact that the gas cap is a replacement item, not the original style delivered from the factory.

I also notice that the brake lever perch is not machined flat to accept a turn signal switch. I believe that by 1967 all the bikes were coming with the perch machined for the unit. If my memory is right (always suspect), then this has been replaced.

I think the wiring harness has been replaced at some point. I note that in the main bundle, the wire going to terminal 2 (mag ground) has "tiger stripes", which is not a form of marking that I've seen on a BMW. Also, a couple of the screw heads on the circuit board have been slightly chewed up from use as well as the plastic guard around terminal 31. If you look at the photo where the main harness enters the bottom of the headlight shell, the grommet it goes through appears to have been sliced to allow its entry, and the cable sheath itself appears to be sealed with a separate piece of heat shrink tubing. The same is true in the photo under the gas tank, showing the horn leads.

Idle speculation: when were the tires last changed? I notice that the rear is a Continental K112 (an old style tire, but made up until just recently, I believe), but it has an H rating molded into it. When did the speed rating letters first come into use?

I don't mean to throw rocks at this undeniably beautiful bike, which has clearly not been molested very much. And all of my points are open to debate, as I was 9 years old at the time and clearly don't have first hand knowledge. But there aren't a lot of bikes around that are essentially new and in such good shape, outside of museums and large, private collections.
--Darryl Richman

haole11
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:27 pm

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by haole11 »

Hi Darryl,

This is exactly the type of information I was hoping for. There is no question this 1967 R60 is a beauty. I just want to know if this is a hard to comeby bike that should go to a museum. Or should I feel good about riding it around town without the concern that I am destroying an original bike.

You make some very specific points about the wiring of this bike which is I find very interesting. Anyone else have comments about the wiring?

By the way, Charlie Johnson in Minnesota changed the petcock in 2005 along with cleaning out the gas tank, replacing the battery, and carb work. The tires are not original but have a lot of tread left on them. I am replacing both tires because of safety concerns (the front tire has a bulge).

Thanks again for the input on my bike Darryl and Allan. I really appreciate the time you have taken to look at the pictures and provide your opinions about the bike.

Regards,

Phil

EuroIron
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:38 pm

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by EuroIron »

pipe bluing

I've yet to look at the pix but

I can tell you for certain that you can go beyond seriously bluing a brand new set of pipes without a bike every being ridden the first mile


I recall allowing a friend of mine to ride one of my suicide machines

no key or kill switch on the magneto

he couldn't figure out how to shut off the engine

hold the brake and dump the clutch in gear...... not really easy since suicide clutch and jockey shifter

or short the easily accessible cut out terminal

he let my bike, with new pipes on it, idle for several minutes

they were shot

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Darryl.Richman
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Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by Darryl.Richman »

There's no question that it's possible to blue the pipes significantly without going anywhere. And blue pipes are a BMW tradition, they have always used single, thinwalled pipes that start to blue from day one. You can polish it out, but it will come right back.

However, on a normally run bike, the bluing progresses out from the head and around the bend. It takes some mileage for it to get all the way around the bend, typically, certainly more than 28 miles.

Still, I tried to couch my comments carefully because the bike could be run for a while on the stand with no airflow and the pipes would certainly get very hot and turn blue. (IMHO, this would constitute some severe abuse to the motor.)

(BTW, these bikes can very easily be stopped without using the key or dumping the clutch. Simply let the bike fall to idle, then as abruptly as possible, whack open the throttle. The immediately lack of vacuum will starve the motor and it will just stop in its tracks.)
--Darryl Richman

EuroIron
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:38 pm

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by EuroIron »

well I looked this afternoon

interesting and very nice bike but

I would never consider performing even a loose appraisal based on the handful of 600x400 pictures even though most of them are of good quality

EuroIron
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:38 pm

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by EuroIron »

awww now I see the high res zip file

downloading them now

tip........ photobucket is free and will allow you very large pix

EuroIron
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:38 pm

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by EuroIron »

ok, looked at them

1900 wide

but too low res to make any useful determinations

perhaps the image quality is too low at cam

or perhaps during the "save as" process the image quality was reduced

however

my inclination is that the bike does have more than 28 miles on it

Allan.Atherton
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am

Pictures of an Original 1967 R60 or an Amazing Restoration?

Post by Allan.Atherton »

I thought I saw a milky pin stripe on top of the tank in one of the photos, but now don't see it, so I agree with Darryl that the stripes are too perfect for factory. His other points are really good, too.
In the photo under the tank, the shrink wrap termination on the harness sheath looks oddly modern.
My 1969 R69US came without a flat throttle and I had to exchange with another bike's when I added turn signals.

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