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Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

tboooe
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:32 am
Location: The OC!

Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

Sorry for all the questions guys...I am just learning about my new to me '67 R69s. So today I took the bike out for its first extended ride. I noticed that when I try to shift I get a lot of gear grinding. I checked and adjusted the clutch cable to minimize free play so that I see the lever at rear of engine start to move pretty much just as I start to pull the clutch lever in. However, I am still getting that awful grinding sound when I shift. Any ideas?
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Tommy
1967 R69s + a bunch of Ducatis

808Airhead
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by 808Airhead »

There is a LONG learning curve for these transmissions. Make sure you have only 5 mm free play at clutch lever, and when shifting gears :
1. Pre load shift lever , this means apply light pressure to lever with foot, not enough to move it but enough to put pressure on it
2. Let off gas and pull in clutch at the same time
3. Count in your head “1-2”
4. Click up shift lever with foot
5. Let out clutch and accelerate.
This will help you smooth out the shifts before you damage your gearbox. I also use Lucas 85-90W gear oil and my bikes snick into gear with no clonks whatsoever. DOWNSHIFTING is a whole other ball game …you have to have the bike at the right speed , right revs, and you have to “stab” it quickly to get it to downshift with no noise. I am getting good at it, but I have almost 30k miles under my belt , it takes PRACTICE! Good luck!
Thomas M.
R69S - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3 - R69

mcsherry1328
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by mcsherry1328 »

That is an excellent reply on the correct method for shifting vintage BMW gearbox. It really is a rather long learning curve, it is odd to preload the shifter when shifting up. Once you master it shifting definitely improves. Thanks for sharing your tribal knowledge, you're not going to read that in any manual. Years ago I bought an R27 that looked perfect. When I road it the gearbox would grind every up and downshift. I was expecting the gearbox to work like a modern Japanese bike and shift easy and smooth.

tboooe
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:32 am
Location: The OC!

Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

LOL! Thanks guys. I realize I was shifting like I do on my Ducatis which is extremely fast and goes likes this:
1. Preload shifter
2. Roll off throttle
3. At same time barely pull in clutch (not sure why I do this since I am essentially doing clutchless upshifts)
4. Upshift
5. Start to roll on throttle
6. Let out clutch

All of this happens in about 1 sec. I guess I need to slow things down quite a bit!

For downshifting do you recommend blipping the throttle to rev match? That said, given how sloppy the throttle is I doubt that I would be able to match the revs very well anyway!
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Tommy
1967 R69s + a bunch of Ducatis

808Airhead
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by 808Airhead »

Thanks mcsherry for the compliment on my post, I wish someone had told me when I first rode these ladies. These bikes have a heavy flywheel and do not like shifts being rushed. Some of the masters can do it with no clutch,or shift quickly, but after rebuilding gearboxes I am more into preservation and longevity of the machine, so I treat them like the old girls they are. I rev them up nicely and don't baby them, but pay attention carefully to clutch adjustment and shifting. These bikes are cantankerous and rather staid performers, which did not appeal to many riders in period, especially considering the price of the machine! I love them,but understand what they are,definitely not anything like a Duc or a Japanese bike. I rode a friends Indian Royal "Oilfield" (Enfield) and was shocked that this little,cheap Indian /British bike had the smoothest and easiest gear change...... they are what they are!
Thomas M.
R69S - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3 - R69

Gossamer
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:49 am
Location: West Bend, WI

Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by Gossamer »

I have the same thing going on with mine. The guys that helped with my resto bascially told me get to speed, pull in the clutch count, shift, etc.

Downshifting I have pretty much mastered. I've found that my 59 R69 likes higher speeds/rpm than lower for cleaner quieter shifts.

tboooe
Posts: 87
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

Gossamer wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:54 pm
I have the same thing going on with mine. The guys that helped with my resto bascially told me get to speed, pull in the clutch count, shift, etc.

Downshifting I have pretty much mastered. I've found that my 59 R69 likes higher speeds/rpm than lower for cleaner quieter shifts.
What is the trick for downshifting? Do you need to blip the throttle to rev match or do you just ease out the clutch slowly?
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Tommy
1967 R69s + a bunch of Ducatis

xackley
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by xackley »

I cannot remember my R69 transmission ever "grinding" when up or down shifting. There is often a pleasant re-assuring clunk.
The only reason for pre-load on mine is to not shift too lackadaisically and land in a false neutral. But pre-load has never been a necessity to avoid a gnashing of teeth.

When on the center stand, put it in gear, with the clutch lever pulled, rev the engine. The back wheel should not react.

Is there a synchronizer in the transmission that could go bad?

I use 40w oil in the transmission as the manual specifies, not gear oil. I doubt that would make a difference.

Don

EDit: On mine there is no trick to down shift, pull the clutch and press the lever smoothly with confidence.
1958 R69, 1972 R75/5, 1980 XS650, 1982 GL1100, 2003 guzzi ev, 2017 guzzi V7!!!
All on the road, going no where in particular in the Finger Lakes of New York

tboooe
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

Hi everyone. I am not sure if this could be related to my shifting issues but the cotter pin for the shift lever on my bike has the nut on the bottom. I believe its supposed to be the other way around with the nut on top? Not sure if this would have any impact on shifting. i checked and the nut doesnt come in contact with the frame. Also, what I find confusing is that in the parts catalog, the nut is shown on the bottom but I know this has been discussed a lot so I will flip the pin around. I believe I can remove the bottom and front engine mounts and tilt the engine a bit?
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Tommy
1967 R69s + a bunch of Ducatis

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wa1nca
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by wa1nca »

My 1955 r50 and r69s also has the nut on the bottom
As long as it is not hitting the frame while shifting no need to change it
Tommy
Tommy Byrnes
54 R51/3, 55 R50/Velorex 560 sidecar, 64 R27, 68 R69US, 75 R75/6
Ashfield, Ma
USA

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