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Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

tboooe
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

wa1nca wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:48 am
My 1955 r50 and r69s also has the nut on the bottom
As long as it is not hitting the frame while shifting no need to change it
Tommy
As I understand it, the pin orientation changes the position of the shift lever. With the pin inserted through the bottom the lever is supposed to be higher (I think) which would make downshifting easier but upshifting a bit more difficult. On my other bikes I actually do prefer the lever to be slightly higher than where the bottom of my shoes are when on the footpegs. This is because I tend to not push down far enough when downshifting. If it is as easy as removing the top mounting bracket and lower engine bolt then I may give this a try just out of curiosity.
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Tommy
1967 R69s + a bunch of Ducatis

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Flx48
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by Flx48 »

tboooe wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:33 am
Hi everyone. I am not sure if this could be related to my shifting issues but the cotter pin for the shift lever on my bike has the nut on the bottom. I believe its supposed to be the other way around with the nut on top? Not sure if this would have any impact on shifting. i checked and the nut doesnt come in contact with the frame. Also, what I find confusing is that in the parts catalog, the nut is shown on the bottom but I know this has been discussed a lot so I will flip the pin around. I believe I can remove the bottom and front engine mounts and tilt the engine a bit?
DisplayImage.jpg
Think you're referring to the tapered bolt retaining the shift lever-
I've had several Earles fork bikes through the years that would not fully engage in gear, or would not stay in gear, and returning the shift lever retaining bolt to the nut on the top orientation was the cure and restoring good clean shifting operation.

I believe nut on top to be the correct location, though I'm not surprised some bikes operate fine with the reverse location, given the variations in frames, etc.
One of the bikes giving me this problem was after a trans rebuild, where I neglected to reinstall the lever on the trans before installing the trans in the chassis, and then choosing to just go ahead and install with the nut on the bottom out of laziness, but ultimately having to reverse the bolt anyway...

It's been my experience with different brands of older bikes that parts book illustration anomalies are not all that unusual.
This I've put down to a number of things; the illustrations were generally produced when the bike is first introduced, and subsequent factory changes often never made it into the books, also illustrators sometimes took artistic liberties, and once in a while it seemed perhaps the illustrator had misunderstood the engineering involved.

I found, for me, juggling the motor to be the most efficient way to reverse the bolt.

And even if this exercise proves not solve your shift issue, its certainly the simplest thing to check before diving deeper.
Best-
George

tboooe
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

Flx48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:10 pm


I found, for me, juggling the motor to be the most efficient way to reverse the bolt.

And even if this exercise proves not solve your shift issue, its certainly the simplest thing to check before diving deeper.
Best-
George
Thank you George. Can you pls explain what you mean by "juggling the motor"? From my limited research it seems that the simplest way to get enough room to reverse that bolt is to remove the top motor mount bracket and bottom front most engine mount bolt then pivoting the engine a bit to get enough clearance. If there is an easier way I am all ears!
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Tommy
1967 R69s + a bunch of Ducatis

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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by 808Airhead »

That bolt only goes in "ONE WAY"....don't "reverse it"! NUT ON TOP!
Thomas M.
R69S - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3 - R69

tboooe
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

808Airhead wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:41 pm
That bolt only goes in "ONE WAY"....don't "reverse it"! NUT ON TOP!
Sorry for the confusion...I am trying to reverse it to have the nut on top. Right now on my bike the nut is on the bottom.
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Tommy
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by 808Airhead »

Sorry, my bad.. yup I see what the confusion is. :lol: You can remove rear engine bolt only and lift it up slightly? This could give you enough room possibly? I have never had to do this since I install the pin correctly every time :lol:
Thomas M.
R69S - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3 - R69

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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by Flx48 »

I guess juggling the motor is a scientific term-
Which in layman's terms means I start taking out the trans to the point of being able to R&R the shift lever bolt, (I'm one of the guys who prefer moving the engine, rather than the swingarm, for trans access) so basically what it sounds like is what I think you already have in mind.
That includes removing mufflers/air tubes/air cleaner/gas lines/top engine mount/bottom engine bolts/driveshaft bolts and juggling the motor forward a skosh (more science terms..) to gain enough clearance at the shift lever.
I'm not recalling how close to actually being able to remove the trans this goes before there's enough room to invert the bolt compared to full trans removal; I've done numerous trans R&Rs, but done just the shift lever bolt only operation just a handful of times.
Anyway, it is a relatively quick operation, and hopefully solves your issue, so going inside the box does not become necessary.
Best-
George

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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by wa1nca »

I agree with George but you don't have to remove the front engine bolt
Just loosen the front engine bolt
Use a jack to support the rear of engine
remove the rear engine bolt and raise the rear upwards enough to R+R the shifter bolt
PS:
I don't think you need to remove the 4 drive shaft bolts because their should be enough free play in the drive shaft universal joint to juggle the transmission upwards to R+R the shifter bolt
DSC05032.jpg
If you do it this way let us know if you needed to remove the 4 drive shaft bolts
Tommy
Tommy Byrnes
54 R51/3, 55 R50/Velorex 560 sidecar, 64 R27, 68 R69US, 75 R75/6
Ashfield, Ma
USA

tboooe
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by tboooe »

Thank you George and Tommy! Glad I now know what the official, technical term "juggling" means! :)

Today I removed the locking nut from the shifter bolt just to see if I could wiggle it out but it seems to be firmly in place. Given its close proximity to the frame, footpeg and side stand, even if I juggle the engine up a bit, I am not sure if I can get a hammer in there to tap out the bolt. I quickly tried using a flat metal bar I had, leveraged against the footpeg to push the shifter bolt up but no luck. Therefore, I think I have to remove those items as well.
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Re: Gears grinding when trying to shift up or down

Post by wa1nca »

I had to replace the rubber drive shaft boot yesterday so I removed the transmission by tilting the engine
My shifting bolt has the nut also on the bottom so it was a good time install it with nut on top

I did have to drive it out with a punch and hammer !!

Tommy
Tommy Byrnes
54 R51/3, 55 R50/Velorex 560 sidecar, 64 R27, 68 R69US, 75 R75/6
Ashfield, Ma
USA

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