If you like our site, please consider joining our club!
By joining you will help ensure that we can continue to provide this service
JOIN HERE!

Sidecar recommendations requested

mcsherry1328
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by mcsherry1328 »

I was first introduced to BMW & sidecars when I was 20. I had just purchased my first new BMW motorcycle, a 1975 R75/6. Which I still have. At that time a local guy I met from the area BMW club had a BMW special TR500 Steib sidecar setup. My first thought having never ridden in one is , why would anyone put a sidecar on a motorcycle. He offered me a ride and I loved it. I couldn't stop smiling & thought I have to get one of these. At that time sidecars were rare and hard to find. I bought an R69S solo bike. Which at the time was also hard to find. Later I bought a Steib S500 in pieces but complete. After putting it all together including sidecar gearing etc. I can say after learning how to set up and drive a sidecar rig that driving one is not really fun. It's work all the time, my analogy is that it's like sailing. You are always doing something, adjusting as you go. For me the joy of a sidecar is giving people rides. People who don't like motorcycles love riding in a sidecar. They just smile and beam, waiving to people going by. I still have the same rig and ride it quite often. I use it primarily around where I live and ride the two lane back roads. It can cruise 65 no problem but usually I just ride at 50 or so.
IMG_1397-1.jpg
Last edited by mcsherry1328 on Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

MikeL46
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:58 pm

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by MikeL46 »

Lets face it: Riding sidecar rig is not the same as riding a motorcycle. The only thing they have in common is the placement of the rider and the controls.

I've often said you are much better getting into a sidecar rig if you have never ridden a motorcycle. Not saying you can't enjoy the sidecar if you ride a motorcycle - I had over 200,000 motorcycle miles before I built a conversion BMW (R50 w/R100 engine/trans) with a Ural sidecar. My wife and did a 12,000 mile trip with that rig and got married on it at a BMWMOA National meet.

You will have to learn some new reflexes. When I first got on the rig I promptly turned into a ditch. A motorcycle will turn left when the bars are turned to the right; a sidecar will turn right when the bars are turned to the right. That's right, they turn in opposite directions with the same input! A sidecar reacts more like a car. I had some riders deny the turn right/go left reality; but when they actually try it they admit it does happen. So, when motorcycle reflexes try to turn a sidecar you go the wrong way! Spend some time in a quiet place with no other vehicles to learn how to steer the rig. Learn to enjoy it.

The biggest benefits of a sidecar are:
- Carrying capacity. Both passengers and gear.
- No balance issues. Feet up at stops.
- Ability to meet people. Someone will always want to talk to you.

It is a unique vehicle. Do it right and never look back.

Mike
67 R50/2 w/R100 engine/trans and Ural Sidecar
69 R60/2 76 R90S 78 R100RS
70 Triumph w/Spirit Eagle Sidecar

Daves79x
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:13 pm
Location: Knox, PA. USA
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by Daves79x »

Thank you for that Mike! I'm about to embark on that journey too and appreciate words of encouragement.

Dave
Dave

bellsonracing
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:55 pm

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by bellsonracing »

Wow, what a bunch of informed, useful, relevant responses. Thanks to all.
Since I've never driven a sidecar, it seems obvious I shouldn't get the $6500 from Germany.
Seems if I get a reasonably priced Ural type, then I can re-sell it for close to cost if I don't like it.

I'm making an offer on the Southern California Craigslist sidecar.

Bruce

User avatar
skychs
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:12 pm
Location: Richmond VA
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by skychs »

I agree .... side cars are not for everyone. Most either hate or love them. I have a Globe GS200 (Steib LS200) on my 1966 R60/2 and love it. It took awhile to learn how to ride it but I love it. Take your time learning to ride it. Quick movements of the handlebars will send you into the ditch very fast. Practice Practice Practice.
Attachments
5B726108-EE45-4209-ADA3-210B4104B393.jpeg
1966 R60/2, 1967 R69S, 1975 R90S, 2020 R1250GSA

User avatar
Flx48
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:11 pm
Location: NW CT
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by Flx48 »

For those wanting to know about a few sidecar driving basics, perhaps the first thing to understand is the difference between solo and sidecar.
Attaching a sidecar is not like attaching other motorcycle accessories, (fairings, bags, etc) yet it is often thought of as just another accessory.
A sidecar transforms the bike into a different vehicle; the bike becomes a component of something else.
It's the same bike with the same controls, but that's where the similarity ends; everything about operating will feel different.

After that comes understanding how an outfit operates differently from solo.
That is, it steers to turn, rather than leans to turn.
Now, everyone seems to know that basic fact, but it is generally a revelation that has to be experienced to fully grasp.

Also good to realize early is that steering, as opposed to leaning, requires physical effort.
And the brisker the pace one chooses, the more effort required.
That's the reason sidecar bars are wider than solo. (think of parallel parking with your big ole pre-power steering pickup truck)

Next understand how the asymmetric layout affects steering.
A sidecar rig is not a tricycle layout.
And the asymmetric layout of a rig creates dynamics that require different strategies for turning in one direction compared to the other.
When turning to the right, the motorcycle will basically be trying to go around the sidecar.
When turning to the left, the sidecar will be trying to come around the motorcycle.
The above is of course reversed for commonwealth (and some other) countries.
And another way to view this is the motorcycle always wants to go toward the sidecar when accelerating, and away from the sidecar on deceleration.
Or, if only considering the throttle when cornering, the lightest steering effort is obtained by throttling around right turns and backing of the throttle turning left.
What happens when braking is determined by your specific brake layout; whether there's a brake on the s/c or not, and if there is are the two linked or not.
Respecting the effects of the asymmetric layout helps one adjust more quickly to the inherent idiosyncrasies of piloting a sidecar rig, and develop more effective driving skills.

The front wheel likes to plow when turning, (understeer) which is more noticeable on unpaved roads.
Which is the reason why many prefer square tread tires all the way around; more footprint, for more friction (traction) with the road surface, means more control, same as with a car.
A quick search with the google yielded Metzeler (my fav) and Heidenau for 18", and Heidenau, Duro,and Avon for 19" wheels.

And, just like with your car, wheel alignment with the s/c is critical to safety as well as driving effort; finding the amount of wheel lead, toe-in, and lean out that suits your chosen combination will have a large effect on basic safety and ease of operation.
The rig should want to track in a straight line down a normally cambered road.

I realize this is pretty basic stuff for folks who already drive an outfit, just thought it might be of interest to those contemplating trying it out; I sure wish I'd gotten some of this info back when I first started out, it would've significantly shortened the learning curve, so hopefully some will find it useful.
Best-
George

mcsherry1328
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by mcsherry1328 »

George, That is all excellent information for anyone owning and driving a sidecar. Thanks for the post. Now that my sidecar is set up properly it is really nice to drive. It took quite some time to get to the point of correct chasis set up, gearing, tires, handle bars. Michael

eagan7096
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by eagan7096 »

I recently purchased a 66 R69S with a Steib TR500. I'm interested in everyones opinion about whether the R69S is adequately powered for this sidecar and what are any recommendations for improvements? Also are the stock brakes sufficient?
Pardon my being slightly off topic.
Thank you,
Earle
Earle Eagan
57 R69

dosgatos
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:58 pm

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by dosgatos »

Just a few more notes:

Sidecar rigs have quirks, just like motorcycles. You soon get used to them.

The prices for new Steib reproductions are deceptive. You need to add shipping (as expensive as shipping a motorcycle) and paint, as they come primered and need quite a bit of prep. That can add as much as $2,000.

I have two sidecars, both of which I disassembled and restored. Here are real world costs:

1960s Bender LS (a Danish Steib S350 copy) - $7,229 (includes $650 shipping)

1953 Steib LS 200 - $6,309 (purchased locally and required no shipping)

User avatar
Flx48
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:11 pm
Location: NW CT
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Sidecar recommendations requested

Post by Flx48 »

Hi Earle-
Asking whether your combo has adequate power and sufficient brakes are subjective questions, and the answers really depend both on what your expectations are, and the mechanical condition of what you have.

The BMW Spezial (rebadged Steib TR500) was marketed by BMW specifically for the Earles fork bikes, so that tells you the factory thought the Earles bikes were up to task, at least back in the days when they were current.
And the 69S develops the most power of all the Earles models, so if in good nick it'll be all that the makers expected.
But if your expectation is to haul ass on the freeway, or keep up with your canyon carving buds, you may well be disappointed.

The brakes are drum brakes, not discs, and they will not perform like discs.
You did not mention whether the s/c is equipped with a brake.
If I'm recalling correctly, the BMW Spezial had to have a brake when sold in Germany from the '50s on, to meet the TUV standards for stopping distance, so many examples were brake equipped.
I don't think other countries had mandatory motorcycle stopping distances in those days.
The s/c brake does add to stopping ability, if it's kept well adjusted.
Empty, the s/c weighs in around 250 lbs, so the braking with an empty s/c will act like when you are riding solo and carrying a large friend as a passenger, and if the s/c has a passenger in it, well, its like carrying two big buddies on board your solo ride..

The brakes on a rig are doubley important; first because they see much more wear than the brakes on a solo, I generally remove at least the front wheel with every oil change (800-1000 mi.) and sweep the accumulated brake dust out of the drum, and secondly, with a rig (as opposed to solo) one is much more dependent on brakes, rather than maneuverability, for accident avoidance.
Generally speaking, one huge advantage of disc brakes over drums is the lack of the need to adjust them, so for me the frequent wheel removal is a great excuse to remember to readjust.

Like many here, I've run all the Earles fork models at one time or another,(with the exception of the 50S) both solo and with a s/c.
My hands down preference for a tug is the R69, which I find much more tractable than the 69S; the S makes more power, but keeping the engine in the narrower powerband was, for me, unwieldy; and dropping the revs out of the powerband can be hard on the motor.
Your signature line lists a '57 R69; were it me, I'd be putting the chair on the 69, and run the 69S as the solo sport bike; best of both worlds.

As far as improvements go, I'd start by checking the alignment; it should want to roll straight ahead when coasting on a flat (uncambered) road surface. (but also bear in mind the bike will feel like it wants to pass the s/c while accelerating, and conversely, the s/c will want to pass the bike under deceleration- normal)
The more you can equip your bike for s/c duty, the more comfortable an experience you'll have.
For me that means s/c tires all the way around. (more road traction at all wheels)
Wide handlebars. (more leverage)
Swingarm/shocks in forward position, (lighter steering)
Big oil pan. (as a tug, the engine works twice as hard and will last half the mileage, and so will appreciate more and cooler oil)
Non-solo first gear. (with the heavy chair the higher solo 1st gear can be hard on the clutch in hilly starts) (to find what you have, pop out the plugs and roll it over to count the revs it takes for one complete turn at the driveshaft)
S/C rearend gears. (7/27 or 6/26, depending on your terrain and riding style, most of us prefer 7/27) (but one might be tempted to use the lower 6/26 if using the 69S along with the heavy chair, because of that high rev powerband) (to check what gears you have, roll rear wheel one complete revolution while counting number of turns at the driveshaft, don't trust what's stamped on the rear, too much time has passed)
S/C springs on all four corners of the bike. (solo springs sag over time, removing some of the available travel) (check which you have by measuring spring wire diameter)
A wide rim at the rear wheel. (it'll put the most tread on the road where it's needed the most)
And if you care, a speedo geared to the rear gears you're using. (I'm usually watching the road, not the speedo; and I'm not worried about speeding when on the rig..)

Hope at least some of these opinions are a help!
Best-
George

Post Reply