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Inspiration, 1955 R50

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johnpst
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:53 am

BACK IN BUSINESS

Post by johnpst »

Aloha and thank you Kurt,

Okay, I'll post in a little while and get some photos fired up and back to business.

John
John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

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johnpst
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:53 am

DISTRACTIONS

Post by johnpst »

Aloha,

I have done some work on the R50 but, not enough to really write about. I'm still waiting on the body parts from paint. Yes, they've been there for months... I'm confident I will some day see them again and pretty sure I will like the result but, dang... This is taking forever.

So, in order to fund my projects, I do work for others. Sometimes I buy them, transform them and sell them and sometimes I take in customer bikes.

Recently I found a Suzuki TU250x on CL for sale on the North Shore of Oahu. The photo indicated it would be a pretty straight forward clean, tune, mod to taste, and sell. When I got to it, wow! The rust monsters got a hold of it, there was no key and the tires had just bled to death. It's a great story of how soldiers look after each other not only on the battlefield but at home. The owner was sent to training on the mainland and ended up with permanent transfer orders. He left the bike with a buddy who sold it for him. Anyway, see the attached photos for the transformation. I did't really get any great shots of the before. Sold day one for top dollar.

Also, a Duc is next on the project list. The R50 is the priority but, gotta pay for things. Anyway, the Duc didn't run so price was very reasonable. Plug the coils back in, charge the battery, and it runs fine. By the way, these things are brutally powerful.

Thanks all. I'll get the crankshaft stories back up a little later.

Thanks for all the support everyone.

John
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John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

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johnpst
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:53 am

BACK TO WORK

Post by johnpst »

Aloha,

Not much new. Small details coming together.

First, anyone that says the easy stuff is easy, is wrong. Installing the rear brakes for example. This is just a pain in the o'kole (arse for your Britts). Now, it's a simple matter of putting the swinging arm on, installing the final drive unit, positioning the brake lever correctly, threading the brake link rod through, etc. Well, all of that is the easy part. Getting the cotter pin through the transfer link is an absolute pain in the o'kole. Now, this is like the swinging arm bearing mentioned earlier, just one of those days. The job really isn't that hard but, two cotter pins took me about 45 minutes to get them in. Can't explain it. All good now.

Complaining aside, things are going pretty well. I've replaced the head bearings with taper bearings. Very nice. Easy modification. No machining, just install. If you powder coat, be careful not to get the material too thick on the upper bearing "cover". Coating on the interior will bind on the frame. Simple matter but, just be prepared for it. I was able to thin the coating with some emery cloth without removing it. Works fine. Remember to properly shim the triple clamp properly.

Shimming the front swingarm can, as Barrington and Vech advise, be another painful task. Certainly not impossible but, another real beer burning talk to yourself (okay, to myself) event. Some folks file the edges of the shims so that they will slip between the folk and the top hat. If you've never done this job, it's hard to picture. Trust me, when you are done, you will remember it. I did not chamfer the edge. I John Wayne'd it. No issues, just time consuming.

Installing the front end was uneventful. The Bloomberg book outlines an excellent starting point for setting the front brake lever on the hub. It's always good to mark things that work so, I've etched marks into the shaft with a file to promote repetition of location.

Okay, the engine is coming up. The paint job was just reported to be complete so, I'll pick that up on the weekend. I got inspired by BMW Motorcycle Magazine, an article based on a R60/2 from Anchorage, named "A Hint of Red". My wife liked the colors so, I was inspired by (stole) it.
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John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

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johnpst
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:53 am

BACK ON TRACK - ENGINE BUILDING

Post by johnpst »

Aloha all,

It's been a busy summer filled with other than BMW work.

Well, finally, thanks to Thomas here in Hawaii, I was able to break free and get some solid work done last weekend. Thomas has the Cycle Works engine stands. It's a great tool. Thomas has also built a few of these bikes so, the combination of tools and experience was the perfect recipe for an afternoon swapping stories and putting the crank and cam in.

First, see that Barrington has to say. The rear bearing carrier has the slightest of lip and Barrington says to replace it. There is no clearance given by any authority that I'm aware of (Clymer, BMW, Barrington, this site...). Barrington recommends replacement if there is "any" step which can catch a fingernail. Being an engineer, "any" is not a technical data point so, we took the measurements of the bearing OD and the carrier ID. The bearing is, and should be, 72 mm (2.8346"). The ID of the carrier is 71.98 mm (2.8338") so, there's interference. The coefficient of expansion for aluminum is such that, this interference will remain at any expected operating temperature of this engine. Since this bearing is designed to allow some axial motion for crankshaft expansion and contraction and the fact that empirically, we proved that the carrier has interference at equal temperature to the bearing I decided to keep it in service. The use of some 220 grit emery to remove the slight lip without removing bearing contact material and we're in business.

NOTE: I had never met Thomas' wife and therefore was not fully confident that my engine was clean enough to share space in their oven so, we attempted crankshaft installation with MAPP gas. No good. It could have worked, eventually but, aluminum is used for a heat sink for a reason. It can more heat rapidly. Using MAPP to locally heat the rear of the engine case would cool by the time the crankshaft was installed. Thomas put it in the oven, we cleaned and swapped stories, and installed flawlessly. Moral? Use an oven for this job.

Thomas and I are both busy people, we have worked on contacting each other over the months and have not been able to meet in person. A phone call a couple of weeks ago left it at, I'll call you when I have an afternoon that I'm not surfing or working. Thomas called last weekend and offered his garage and tools and I had a couple of hours so, I grabbed my engine and what I thought were all the parts we need. I didn't want to keep him waiting while I moved my other motorcycles and dug through the R50 bins. Why do I outline this conversation? I did not grab all of the parts. Though all of my parts are bagged and labeled, they are in a box which weighs 200 lbs. Oil pump gears, cam cover screws for example. Thomas donated his oil pump gears to the cause. Thank you Thomas!! This could have gone much worse had you not been there.

Other than the drama of the rear bearing retainer, everything else went off without incident.

So, on to the details:

Before working with Thomas, the case was hand cleaned and I used solvent to clean the oil passages. I'm not going to a new motorcycle look. I'm going for a very well taken car of 60 year old motorcycle look with all of the patina.

I chased all of the thread both in the case and all of the fasteners to insure they tighten properly and do not bind.

I cleaned all of the sealing surfaces with Sctotchbright pads to remove old schmaltz. I also took a straight edge to all of the sealing surfaces and check for inconsistencies. I cleaned burrs with a light stone.

I measured everything to insure there would be no surprises on installation. Bearing diameters, retainers. bearing carrier to case fit, shim thicknesses, etc. All ready for installation.

I installed the slingers and staked the screws. I also followed Barrington's advice to use blue Locktite

I installed the bearings on the crankshaft and into the front bearing carrier without incident. All went as Barrington recommended.



Thanks for the support everyone. You've all provided great advice and resources for this to be a success.

John
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John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

808Airhead
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Looking good!! I had the same

Post by 808Airhead »

Looking good!! I had the same situation as you with my R69S motor,I used the loctite yellow (or was it green?) bearing locker,and seems fine almost 10K miles later. My new oil pump gears had same backlash as my old ones I gave you,lol. I would not worry too much on that. Getting there!
Thomas M.
R69S - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3 - R69

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Looking good!! I had the same

Post by 808Airhead »

Looking good!! I had the same situation as you with my R69S motor,my front nose bearing was a little too easy to fit in the front end.I used the loctite yellow (or was it green?) bearing locker,and seems fine almost 10K miles later. My new oil pump gears had same backlash as my old ones I gave you,lol. I would not worry too much on that. Getting there!
Thomas M.
R69S - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3 - R69

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johnpst
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:53 am

ENGINE ASSEMBLY

Post by johnpst »

Aloha,

Ever put something together and think, hmmm, that doesn't seem right. All of the bearings on this bike are interference fit. The design is such that heating the aluminum to a given temperature will open up the fit to something you can push the bearings into the bore without too much force.

I put the timing cover on by heating it and after installation thought, hmmm, "that was easy." Now, remember that the primary cause of the original failure was the bearing cages failing allowing the balls to come loose, allowing the crankshaft to flail wildly. The bearing cover had some minor scars on it but, no sign that the nose bearing spun in the fit so, I took no effort to replace or repair it. I just cleaned up the scars and kept it.

It bugged me so, I got absolution from Vech. I looked up some guideline for a bearing of this type and application which are close but not quite what Vech recommended but, Because I"m lazy and, Vech has decades of experience who told me, the bearing can be removed by hand so, as long is it doesn't show signs of spinning and there is some tightness to the fit, it's fine.

Everything else was no drama. Installing the seals. No issue. Cleaning and surfacing the sealing surfaces and parting lines. No drama.

The oil pump gear has quit a bit, 0.07mm clearance, backlash. Now, I believe it's a linearly loaded gear so, there will be no issues but, it took me by surprise.
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John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

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johnpst
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ENGINE BOTTOM END COMPLETE

Post by johnpst »

Thanks Thomas,

Yea, I followed your lead with bearing locker just to be sure. I have just about 0.00023" fit which slightly warming the engine will overcome. Bearing locker is a little insurance.

Bottom end, flywheel, and clutch assembled.

First off, it's all easy so, there has been no drama throughout this build. As all know, the Barrington manual with assistance from Clymer and BMW's manuals make this a very straight forward engine. Engineering is the use of scientific principals solve problems. Great engineers make it look easy. Max Friz made this an art. The special tools required are easily fabricated and thank God Cycle Works can provide them at a reasonable price.

I learned something today that will go along with much advice I've given on the ignition system on these bikes. I found, as many have, the while timing these bikes, after timing the magneto, you've run out of room to adjust ignition timing. I have read many stories of folks having to move the magneto out of timing in order to get proper ignition timing. It never occurred to me that I could pull the magneto rotor off and rotate it a couple of degrees. Way cool.

Another thing is, when pushing the rear main seal in, you can use the CycleWorks shock compressor tool. See the photo below. I will allow you to use the flywheel bolt to press the seal in evenly. It won't take it to flush because the bearing carrier studs are just a little long but, it will take it 90%.

i'm installing a lightened flywheel to give it a shot. I live on a 3 mile long hill and having to wait for the engine to drop to speed causes me to loose substantial speed so by the time I shift I'm lugging the engine. I figured the worst thing that can happen is I don't like it. It'll take me a couple of days to change out.

Next is the electrical system and bolt the sheet metal on.

Thanks all,
John
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John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

Daves79x
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You Run Out

Post by Daves79x »

You run out of timing adjustment because the points rubbing block won't allow proper points gap AND proper timing adjustment. Went through this on my build last year. Get Vech's points and you'll be able to get the proper points gap set and get the timing set without moving the magneto rotor or slotting the points plate. I've been given to understand that it's not a good idea to move the magneto timing. Although Barrington does mention it for a 'quick fix'.

It's just such a pain to remove the advancer and do all that several times. Every time you remove the advancer, the differential timing gets messed up and you have to go through all that again. I've come to the conclusion that having these bikes be a 'one-kick' starter has more to do with keeping the magneto timing correct than it does with actual correct point gap, if that what yours comes down to.

As I said, I finally yielded and got Vech's points and that fixed all that.

Thanks again for chronicling your build and the great detailed photos!

Dave
Dave

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johnpst
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:53 am

DONE, KINDA

Post by johnpst »

Aloha all,

Thank you for all of your support. I've been working a lot lately and have had very small windows of time to complete this project so, photo documentation has not been the top priority. The good news is that there no serious issues during reassembly to document. Bolting things together is pretty straight forward.

Thank you to Tom Marino for allowing me to put my engine in his family's oven (if you done this you know why) and loaning me your oil pump. If you need anything, just call.

Thank you Dan Neiner of Cycle Works. You provided the tools, rebuilt the crankshaft, lightened the flywheel (more on this later), and balanced the rotating train. It all works well.

Vech and Richard, you provided consultation and parts for most of this. I appreciate your supplying parts to pre-fit (swingarm shims, steering shims and the like, allowing me to send back the non-used. It really helped save time during assembly. Richard's advice on disassembling the shocks really helped as well.

So, what did I learn from this?

1. Sheet metal is a b!&ch. Aligning my front fender to not rub on the shocks took more time than assembling the engine. Once I thought I had clearance I removed the Ace bandages I used to protect the paint and rode it just to find out that the fender is moving and scratched the shock cover. More work to follow.

2. Make sure if you hire folks to do any work, they know what they are doing. I've already gone over my issues with the cylinder head rebuild. After I pulled them apart and corrected the spring size and cleaned them up, they work fine.

2-a. The guy that did my paint also re-coated the gas tank interior. Rule one, if the coating in yours is in good shape, leave it. My guy used one of the name brand coatings and did not prep it correctly or roll it to prevent buildup. From the filler hole, everything looked fine. When I put the petcock in I found the fitting plugged. What I thought would be a thin layer turned out to be 1/2" thick plug. I power washed the interior of the tank and found that the whole bottom of the tank was about 1/2" thick. The good news is that the original coat is still it great shape and allowed the new coating to come off pretty handily.

3. Take very good notes when removing the engine as to where the mounting shims go. I got the engine in a found that the engine was too far to the left causing me to have to move the shims. Not a big deal but, I didn't find any other documentation of this so, thought I'd mention it here.

4. I'm going to put modern tires on this. Rain grooves are killer on original vintage tires.

I'll get pictures on the next note. I didn't take a lot but, I do have some.

Again, thanks all for the support and encouragement. My next project is a Ducati so, you won't see it here.

John
John
55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 74 Ducati 750GT, 57 - R69, 78 - R100S

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