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which way is up for floats?
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Peter D. Nettesheim
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:27 pm
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
which way is up for floats?
i was afraid you'd say something like that. any suggestions on where to start looking?
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Darryl.Richman
- Posts: 2138
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which way is up for floats?
There's not too many things to play with.
Do you have an air leak somewhere? Maybe the throttle cable is bound up and holding the slide off the stop?
I had to have a new slide made up because mine was so loose in the bore, it rattled. And I couldn't get it to idle at a consistent (slow) speed.
Do you have an air leak somewhere? Maybe the throttle cable is bound up and holding the slide off the stop?
I had to have a new slide made up because mine was so loose in the bore, it rattled. And I couldn't get it to idle at a consistent (slow) speed.
--Darryl Richman
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
which way is up for floats?
i probably have leaks everywhere! time to check the sealant.
the cable seems to be ok-i never feel it binding up on me. and the idle speed is usualy consistant untill i started fiddling with the float-and of course i still need one that doesn't fill up with gas.
just in case, i'll reset the idle screw,in case someone fiddled with it while it was parked somewhere. you never know...
damn; i wish there were someone who rebuilds and restores these things.
the cable seems to be ok-i never feel it binding up on me. and the idle speed is usualy consistant untill i started fiddling with the float-and of course i still need one that doesn't fill up with gas.
just in case, i'll reset the idle screw,in case someone fiddled with it while it was parked somewhere. you never know...
damn; i wish there were someone who rebuilds and restores these things.
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Darryl.Richman
- Posts: 2138
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which way is up for floats?
It's pretty much the blind leading the blind, and I hope to be in your spot in a couple months. Right now I'm building a wheel so the frame straightener can use it as a guide. Then it will be paint. Meanwhile, the engine bottom end is sitting in my garage. The cylinders have been bored, but my machinist didn't like the chrome top rings that came with the new pistons, so am waiting on those. Then the cylinders go to the powder coater. Hopefully I will be able to build the other wheel in this time.
As far as restorers go, Vech builds these bikes. He probably has the most experience of anyone on this side of the pond.
And Peter, who had two of these bikes at the BMW MOA rally last month, has been very gracious with his time and knowledge. It's just that it's so difficult to diagnose these kinds of problems over the net.
As far as restorers go, Vech builds these bikes. He probably has the most experience of anyone on this side of the pond.
And Peter, who had two of these bikes at the BMW MOA rally last month, has been very gracious with his time and knowledge. It's just that it's so difficult to diagnose these kinds of problems over the net.
--Darryl Richman
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
which way is up for floats?
well, it looks like a leaky float's the least of my problems; the throttle slide-or the cable-is binding up on me, making it difficult to set the idle.
and: i'm not getting full power lately when i use first gear-it doesn't want to pull without lots of gas; am i right in assuming that my timing is retarded or my points need adjustment?
and if so, is there an easier way to do it that the old jiggle the points and hope for the best routine?
what's everybody been doing to time these prewar sidevalves? it's not like there's a manual-in any language! and no timing marks, either...
and: i'm not getting full power lately when i use first gear-it doesn't want to pull without lots of gas; am i right in assuming that my timing is retarded or my points need adjustment?
and if so, is there an easier way to do it that the old jiggle the points and hope for the best routine?
what's everybody been doing to time these prewar sidevalves? it's not like there's a manual-in any language! and no timing marks, either...
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Darryl.Richman
- Posts: 2138
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
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which way is up for floats?
I couldn't set the idle on my bike when the slide was loose in the bore. It created a variable air leak, and the motor would accelerate and decelerate over a few seconds. I had a new slide made from brass that fits closely and setting the idle was no problem after that.
I'm not sure about manuals for an R11, but I believe in the timing areas it should be the same as the R12 or the previous generation R52/57/62/63 bikes, and there are English language manuals for these bikes. Craig Vechorik has the manual for the R12, and I have a (very faint) copy of the other one.
Also, there ARE timing marks, but they are present for setting up the motor when it's out of the frame. There are two marks on the back side of the flywheel, OT and VZ. OT is top dead center and VZ is the full advance mark. Each has an arrow and there's a witness mark on the crankcase. What I have done, based on comments from Craig Vechorik, is to add my own witness mark to the window below the right cylinder. Then, line up the OT mark with the witness mark on the flywheel and back of the case, and add a new OT mark on the front of the flywheel where it lines up with the new witness mark. The same for the VZ mark. With this change, it's possible to use a timing light on the motor.
Since your motor is already in the bike, you'll have to do it the old fashioned way. The basic plan is to set the advance lever (or twist grip, if that's how your timing is set) to full advance, find OT on the compression stroke for the right cylinder, back the motor up to the VZ mark, and set the points to just openning at this point. With this relationship, you can use the lever/twist grip to retard the spark to whatever point works best for you, and not worry about advancing it too far for the motor.
On an R12, the VZ point is where the piston is 8-9mm before reaching the OT point. I believe, but have not double checked, that this is about 40 degrees before tdc. Also, be sure to back up the motor beyond this point and then move forward until you reach it, so as to remove all lash from the timing gears.
And yes, it does require removing the head from the cylinder in order to measure this distance.
I'm not sure about manuals for an R11, but I believe in the timing areas it should be the same as the R12 or the previous generation R52/57/62/63 bikes, and there are English language manuals for these bikes. Craig Vechorik has the manual for the R12, and I have a (very faint) copy of the other one.
Also, there ARE timing marks, but they are present for setting up the motor when it's out of the frame. There are two marks on the back side of the flywheel, OT and VZ. OT is top dead center and VZ is the full advance mark. Each has an arrow and there's a witness mark on the crankcase. What I have done, based on comments from Craig Vechorik, is to add my own witness mark to the window below the right cylinder. Then, line up the OT mark with the witness mark on the flywheel and back of the case, and add a new OT mark on the front of the flywheel where it lines up with the new witness mark. The same for the VZ mark. With this change, it's possible to use a timing light on the motor.
Since your motor is already in the bike, you'll have to do it the old fashioned way. The basic plan is to set the advance lever (or twist grip, if that's how your timing is set) to full advance, find OT on the compression stroke for the right cylinder, back the motor up to the VZ mark, and set the points to just openning at this point. With this relationship, you can use the lever/twist grip to retard the spark to whatever point works best for you, and not worry about advancing it too far for the motor.
On an R12, the VZ point is where the piston is 8-9mm before reaching the OT point. I believe, but have not double checked, that this is about 40 degrees before tdc. Also, be sure to back up the motor beyond this point and then move forward until you reach it, so as to remove all lash from the timing gears.
And yes, it does require removing the head from the cylinder in order to measure this distance.
--Darryl Richman
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Barry Robin
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
which way is up for floats?
uh-oh!...lots of detail that went over my head!
thanks for the helping hand. i've just printed out your instructions in the hopes that a mechanic can just follow the directions.
but if nothing else, i just ordered am R12 manual from vech; even if a mechanic doesn't read german, the specs alone should be easy to suss out.
i looked around for one for an R57/63 in english, but i could seem to find anyone who sells it; ah well, one victory at a time...
-b
thanks for the helping hand. i've just printed out your instructions in the hopes that a mechanic can just follow the directions.
but if nothing else, i just ordered am R12 manual from vech; even if a mechanic doesn't read german, the specs alone should be easy to suss out.
i looked around for one for an R57/63 in english, but i could seem to find anyone who sells it; ah well, one victory at a time...
-b
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Bruce Frey
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
Timing
I have an English R12/R17 Handbuch in PDF as well as a reprint that I got from Huggett.
The electronic copy is probably too big to send by email, but I can pull out the pages where it talks about timing.
If you send me your email address I would be happy to send you the pages you are interested in.
Best regards,
Bruce
The electronic copy is probably too big to send by email, but I can pull out the pages where it talks about timing.
If you send me your email address I would be happy to send you the pages you are interested in.
Best regards,
Bruce
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Darryl.Richman
- Posts: 2138
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 am
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which way is up for floats?
Similarly, I've scanned my R52/57/62/63 manual (and parts list) into PDF files, the former is 3.5Mb and the latter about 6Mb. If you send me your email address, I'll send either or both.
--Darryl Richman