R66 up for auction at Bonhams, Stratford, UK

Bigsieuk · Post by **Bigsieuk** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:29 am

Wow! Nice project for someone?

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23600/lot/281/

caker · Post by **caker** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:58 pm

Neat.

Neither of those numbers inspire confidence.

-Chris

schrader7032 · Post by **schrader7032** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:32 pm

Chris -

Why is that? The numbers fall within the range for an R66.

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:21 pm

The roundels in both cases look odd. The frame number roundels are rotated out of alignment with the number, and not on the same baseline. Although the digits are nicely square and equal spaced, they look much sharper than the roundels, like they are newer.

The engine number roundels bounce above on the left and below on the right. The right stamp looks like it is made up of multiple stampings that aren't exactly centered, and it's bigger than the roundel on the left. Again, the numbers are deep and sharp but the roundels are not. Also, I'd like to understand more about the history of the motor, that it doesn't have an OZ-80 stamp directly above the number (which would have been applied if the bike was bought or confiscated by the German military).

speight1823 · Post by **speight1823** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:16 am

Strange. The Frame numbers are or the same style as my 1938 R61 and my 1939 R51 but the engine number is a different style from both my engines. I would be surprised if the engine number had not been re stamped . The stamping on my engines are both the same style and size but of a different size and style to my frame numbers. My engine numbers are vastly different to the Bonhams engine number.
Why I say strange is that as far as I am aware the major difference between pre and post war frames was post war had a support from under the seat to the bottom frame ( Which this one has ). It could have been a later addition.
The tank is in my estimation not pre war BMW . I would guess it is 1960 ies R26/R27 with the tool box cut out.
OK what is it ? I would say possibly R61/R51or R66 frame but probably restampted R51/3.
Engine probably re stamped R51 or R51/2.
Wrong tank . ( Prewar tanks are like hens teeth.)
Over all I would not touch it unless I could get it for about 500 USD and use for spares.
I am not saying I am correct without a closer examination but this is my thoughts.
I am surprised that a reputable auctioneer like Bonhams would get involved in a suspicious bike like this.
Bill
South Africa

Darryl.Richman · Post by **Darryl.Richman** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:51 am

I mostly agree with Bill's estimation, but would make the point that BMW started adding the support strut under the seat before the war (but after 1938, the year claimed for this "bike"). The tank is not correct for the model, and the motor number does look restamped to me.

Which is kind of a shame, because a project like this has enough to it that I think it's worth a lot more than $500. As a point of reference, before my participation on the 2014 Motorcycle Cannonball (where I rode my R52 across the US), I tried to buy a complete driveline that was on German eBay. I saw this as a way to have a complete set of spares for my run. I did my best to snipe* it, and bid $10k for it at the last moment, but was outbid. I suspect that I would have had to go significantly higher to get it.

A relatively complete driveline like this with a frame an forks is sufficient to compliment with lots of reproduction parts to build a bike. A restored R66 could easily be worth $30k or more, so spending $10k (the low end estimate from Bonhams) on the base is not unreasonable. There's a lot of "headroom", especially for someone who can do a lot of the work themselves.

*) On eBay, the term sniping means attempting to outbid the other buyers at the last moment of the auction so they have no time to respond. But because eBay automatically bids for you and only bids up high enough - up to your maximum bid - to win, it also means you have no time to respond if the existing high bid has more room to run.

caker · Post by **caker** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:00 pm

The early prewar plunger frames had no seat downtube.
The later prewar frames had the downtube, except it is in a "D" profile - where the side that faced the rear was flat, even along its gentle curve towards the top of the frame.
All post-war plunger frames have a round down tube.

Is that accurate?

The one in the photograph has the D profile (look where it joins the rest of the frame at its base).

-Chris

Somer · Post by **Somer** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:44 pm

As I remember , the early ones had no down tube but in maybe even midyear 38, it was added?

speight1823 · Post by **speight1823** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:19 am

My 1939 R51 has a down tube under the seat which I thought , prior to reading Darryl 's comments , was put in later . Now I don't know.
Only the bottom half has a bit of a flat on the mudguard side . There are some hammer marks on this flat which must have been part of some repair on the bike.
I would be interested if someone has a photo showing this flat on a unmolested frame.
I will leave my frame as is. Even if not original it is part of the bikes history.
Bill

lui · Post by **lui** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:45 pm

FRame looks original r66 seria 2,engine numbers restamp,shoud looks like r61 numbers etc...
After the war got left many engine, case and heads cylinder,if is no number in it,could be old military stock.Mark Hugget told me.
This r66 case you can see its been removed original numbers.
Nice project very easy to finish it.