18 replies [Last post]
bobc
bobc's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8047
Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 32

Question - I got my bike out for the first time this year, rode 60 miles. I stopped for an ice cream and had one hell of a time getting it started again when engine was warm. Gas is fresh. What's the problem? Points? Condenser? Coil? Eventually it started with a push. HELP!

__________________

BobC

Darryl.Richman
Darryl.Richman's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6285
Surf City, USA (Santa Cruz, CA)
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 2185
As a first guess, it sounds

As a first guess, it sounds like a dying coil. Starts cold, won't start hot is a classic symptom.

__________________

VBMWMO Webmaster,--Darryl Richman
http://darryl.crafty-fox.com

bobc
bobc's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8047
Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 32
Thanks, is there anyway of

Thanks, is there anyway of checking if the coil is bad? Bobc

__________________

BobC

schrader7032
schrader7032's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6748
A first cut at coil

A first cut at coil evaluation would be to measure the resistance from the end of one spark plug cap to the other spark plug cap. A reading somewhere near 17K ohms would be what you're looking for. But that could be fine for a cold coil reading. What happens when the coil is failing is that the once single wire winding breaks down into several sections of smaller lengths of windings. The heat causes the wire to separate enough to create smaller lengths. This drastically reduces the ability of the coil to generate energy to fire the plugs.

__________________

Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

bobc
bobc's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8047
Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 32
My coil

Ok, I will take your advice the coil is bad. In that case Vech has two coils listed for my bike, #12 13 8 004 for $235. The other is #12 13 8 004R for $160. What's the difference aside from the $75?

__________________

BobC

schrader7032
schrader7032's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6748
The $235 one is a rewound

The $235 one is a rewound coil in exchange for you old one...you don't want to do this! The other the solid state coil, Emerald Isle...this is what you want...and it's cheaper! Win-win!!

Give Vech a call and discuss it with him.

__________________

Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

miller6997
miller6997's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6997
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 1065
I would pause and re-evaluate

I would pause and re-evaluate before popping for a new coil, because it might not solve your problem. I agree that calling Vech to discuss options is a good idea. You will also find that the archives for this forum (and the /2 Yahoo group) have recorded many discussions of hard-starting problems, and the causes and solutions are very diverse.

__________________

Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT
Altadena, California

jrapose
jrapose's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8617
Joined: 02/12/2007
Posts: 263
One simple thought

It is not at all uncommon for the float bowls to flood the bike while sitting... might check to make sure the levels are not too high...also I make it a habit of turning off my fuel valves every time I get off the bike...sure helps.

just my thoughts.

Joel Rapose

__________________

Joel Rapose
Powerdynamo Importer USA
http://rapose.biz/

jrapose
jrapose's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8617
Joined: 02/12/2007
Posts: 263
another thought

One of the tricks to make the bike start easily, is to make sure the throttle slides are all the way donw while you are cranking... it's easy to check, just remove the air tubes and check to see where the slides are in the bores,,,often I find someone has set up the idle on one side so the slides do not bottom out.

Joel Rapose
www.rapose.biz

__________________

Joel Rapose
Powerdynamo Importer USA
http://rapose.biz/

schrader7032
schrader7032's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6748
Joel - This is all a part of

Joel -

This is all a part of synching the carbs. Of course checking is great, but if the carbs were properly adjusted and it was confirmed that the slides were operating correctly, then the problem would be something else.

I agree above that the problem might not be a coil. I had very hard starting on my R69S when warm after a gas stop. I figured it was the classic coil failure...why not just take it out of the equation...I was headed to Vech's rally a couple of years ago and didn't need that hanging over my head. But on the road, the bike was hard to start again. My travel buddy saw my frustration and gave it a shot. He was able to see that starting the bike when hot (and in my case somewhat flooded) meant doing it differently than cold. To this day, his technique for hot starting has worked everytime.

So, for me, it wasn't the coil...it was the nut behind the kicker!!

__________________

Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

SteveH
SteveH's picture
 Offline
Joined: 10/23/2011
Posts: 115
slides

jrapose wrote -
just remove the air tubes and check to see where the slides are in the bores,,,often I find someone has set up the idle on one side so the slides do not bottom out.

Just out of interest , when the throttle is fully closed my slides do not quire bottom out they are about 1/8inch raised which is the amount the idle adjustment screws keep
them up.
I think that this is correct ?

__________________

Steve H

schrader7032
schrader7032's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6748
Yes, the slides should not

Yes, the slides should not come complete down the bottom. The idle speed screw holds them up a bit. The amount is determined during a carb synch process. That process involves an iteration between idle speed and mixture (changes to the air screw) and a final check of the throttle cable tension. This can be done by ear...it's easier if you have a tachometer as the /5-on bikes have. There is a device that attaches to the intake side of the carbs which can read the vacuum created by the carb pulling air through. They are EMPI synch meters...search the forum for them.

__________________

Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

scottiesharpe
scottiesharpe's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #9059
Joined: 04/18/2011
Posts: 109
My bike often does this.

My bike often does this. Mostly when it is hot outside. I sometimes can't tell if it is getting no fuel, or if it is flooded.

Here's my starting technique.

1. Leave fuel off. Leave throttle closed. Kick over robustly twice.

2. No start, open fuel petcock. Wait about 5 seconds. Kick over robustly twice.

3. Think "oh shoot, it's flooded!" Turn fuel off.

Open throttle 50% and kick robustly two to six times.

Pop. pop. stutter. stumble. Rev up. Ok it was flooded.

4. If it doesn't start by then, I usually check the key. Oh! It usually helps to turn on the ignition.

I have made it to step 4 an embarrassingly often number of times.

Note that I never use the ticklers.

__________________

Scottie Sharpe, Proprietor
Scottie's Workshop, Santa Clara CA
Full Service repairs, maintenance and restoration workshop for vintage and classic BMW Motorcycles http://blog.scottiesharpe.com

bobc
bobc's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8047
Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 32
Scottiesharp, Please, no

Scottiesharp, Please, no more dumb answers like that. I have been riding /2's for 52 years having bought my first in 1960. Yes, I do know how to turn on the damn key. You see, if you had paid any attention to this you would know there is a red and a green light that turns on when the key is pressed down. Regarding the gas tap, back in the early 1960's I wrote BMW regarding this issue and was informed there was nothing they could do. Please don't bother responding with another dumb or I should say, STUPID answer.

__________________

BobC

miller6997
miller6997's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6997
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 1065
Most of us accept the

Most of us accept the conversational tone and humor on this forum without objection. I saw nothing offensive in Scottie's remarks.

__________________

Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT
Altadena, California

Darryl.Richman
Darryl.Richman's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6285
Surf City, USA (Santa Cruz, CA)
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 2185
Kind of an untactful response

bobc wrote:

Scottiesharp, Please, no more dumb answers like that. I have been riding /2's for 52 years having bought my first in 1960. Yes, I do know how to turn on the damn key. You see, if you had paid any attention to this you would know there is a red and a green light that turns on when the key is pressed down. Regarding the gas tap, back in the early 1960's I wrote BMW regarding this issue and was informed there was nothing they could do. Please don't bother responding with another dumb or I should say, STUPID answer.

Really, Bob, he wasn't accusing you of being stupid, just trying to help out. Everyone misses something once in a while. His tone and way of expressing himself seemed quite clear to me that he was trying to add some humor to a difficult situation. If his suggestions don't seem useful to you, you can easily ignore them.

__________________

VBMWMO Webmaster,--Darryl Richman
http://darryl.crafty-fox.com

808Airhead
808Airhead's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #7677
Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 1018
I liked Scottiesharpes

I liked Scottiesharpes answer,since it mirrors situations I have had as well!! With my experience hot,it will either start in 1-2 kicks,and if it doesn't,that means 20-30 kicks!! That first kick has to be fast & smooth...if not,then it can flood.
As for the hard starting,the ethanol gas is not as stable as the old gas,and if your bike sits,the gas can develop this crazy wispy/silky hair inside it and it coagulates/gels. Check the carb stuff of course,but I had a couple instances if hard start and it ended up being a old original coil gone south.
I love that participation in this forums spans many different generations/countries/backgrounds/PERSONALITIES/interests/ but we all share the same joy of BMW rolling machine art!

__________________

Thomas M.
R69s - R60/2 - R67/2 - R51/3

R60 Sweden
R60 Sweden's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #7876
Joined: 03/18/2010
Posts: 48
condenser?

Had more & more problems with hot starts last summer. Changed condenser, thethe '59 R60 starts on 1, max 2 kicks again. Hot or cold...

Not a big operation or expensive part, so I highly recommend trying it.

Cheers from Sweden where the snow is just melted and the first ride of the season is squared away with.

bobc
bobc's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #8047
Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 32
A new coil, points and

A new coil, points and condenser installed. Case closed. Bobc

__________________

BobC

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.