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beemererik
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I am starting to do some detective work on my R2 that will be going through restoration. When I got the bike it looked like two frame numbers seemed to be present on the rear frame. One matches the head stock badge, the second which was in line with the "P" mark that is typical for a legit serial number was painted over and not legible.

Then numbers do puzzle me. The second number which matches the headstock had strong indications of double stamping. However, they did not try to go over the original number after the "P" which is typical when forging.

Tonight I started to strip the paint in the serial number area on the rear frame. Now I have revealed two serial numbers. The headstamp number is the latter of the two. It is interesting that they concealed the first number with some red primer and then painted over it. But the paint made it appear that this might have happened a long time ago. Why...I have no clue.

Does anyone have any thoughts on why this happened? The work did not appear to be fresh, and I would suspect if they were trying to pass this off as the original frame they would have overstamped the original number.

  • IMG_0540.jpg
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schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
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According to this

According to this page:

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/chassispages/enginechassisto69.htm

those numbers look like they belong to the R4 frames.

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beemererik
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It looks like that list

It looks like that list really covers engine numbers for the earlier bikes. The headstock tag on this bike is marked Engine 11745 and Frame 94230. That tag is 100% original. I confirmed with BMW archives that these two numbers go together for this bike. So with the assigned frame number for this bike being 94230, the second frame stamp of 81427 is earlier.

I am going to see if Historical Archives can tell me what bike this frame went to.

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beemererik
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I guess I am wondering if

I guess I am wondering if this could have been a wartime event and was hoping that some of the owners of prewar bikes could shed some light on having two frame stampings.

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schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
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OK, I see what you mean.

OK, I see what you mean. Yes, that list does indicate it's for engine numbers. It should be the same as frame numbers beginning in about 1941 as Roland Slabon recently wrote in the Bulletin. It would be interesting to see what the Archives might say about that. Good luck!

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Darryl.Richman
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Surf City, USA (Santa Cruz, CA)
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I'll bet the original frame

I'll bet the original frame was destroyed in some event, but the motor and the tag were saved. The owner found another frame, with the earlier number, and hid the number and stamped it with the new number, so he could pass if the authorities asked about it. The new stamping is pretty rude and with more modern number forms. No real forger would believe for an instant that he could get away with that work, not even Dietmar's favorite Invention Bike meister.

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Bruce Frey
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Texas Hill Country, USA
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I think Darryl's explanation

I think Darryl's explanation is the most plausible because of the head badge and engine number, but I have seen seen several BMW from Hungary restamped with 5 digit numbers (matching engine and frame). I was told that the restamping was required by the "authorities" after the war.

A bit off topic, but when I moved to Spain, we took my wife's USA Toyota Camry station wagon with us. In order to get it registered, it was necessary to provide a "rubbing" of the VIN number. With a lot of patience I was able to get a decent rubbing of the VIN tag located just behind windshield on the driver side using a small piece of thin paper and a pencil lead from a drafting pencil. When I took it to the officials, they politely smiled and said they wanted a rubbing of the VIN number stamped in the chassis in the engine compartment.....which does not exist in USA spec cars. After some phone calls by my assistant, my friendly local Toyota dealer stamped the VIN into the chassis and made an offial rubbing...all for free.

Registering my R6 (purchased in Germany) in Spain took over 1 year and was expensive, but at least they were happy with the frame and engine numbers!

Bruce

Bruce Frey
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VBMWMO #6316
Texas Hill Country, USA
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Just FWIW, the only places I

Just FWIW, the only places I have seen frame and engine numbers for prewar bikes are:
-Motorcycles from Munich 1923 to 1969, BMW Mobile Tradition
-Bahnstormer, L. J. K. Setright
-BMW Typen und Technik, Heinz Hartel

There are some slight differences between the books.

Bruce

beemererik
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BMW Archives responded. "The

BMW Archives responded.

"The frame No. 81427 would fit into the Spring/Summer 1932 time frame.
Unfortunately I cannot give you exact data, because I couldn't find the
number in our delivery books (they are sorted by the engine numbers and it's
very difficult to find a single frame number)."

So it looks like a 1932 frame with a 1935 drive train is what I am working with.

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