9 replies [Last post]
Barry Robin
Barry Robin's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #52
San Francisco, Ca.
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 204

i'm thinking about swapping out my R11's single sum carb for a twin carb set-up. anybody have any experience with the real-world usability of the various brands that'll fit? or some good leads on a rebuilt set they'd care to part with?
for the sake of correctness i should be looking for amal-fischers but they're as rare as hen's teeth-and priced through the roof. part of me is thinking to just use non-correct graetzins or prewar bings, as they're cheaper and you can get rebuild parts all day long.
hell, part of me is thinking about the russian repop version at about $50.

choices, choices. i dunno. shoot me now.

-b

Bruce Frey
Bruce Frey's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6316
Texas Hill Country, USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 574
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

You are right....originals are definitely unobtainium. Here are some choices:

1. Post war Bings. My R6 uses Bings from an R50. They work better than the correct Fischer Amals I have which I have never gotten properly sorted. The bowls do not mind being slightly inclined.

2. British Amal repops. I know a guy who has them on his R17. Hitchcocks and other UK vendors have them http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/. These will be spigot mounts like the R16 and R17 used.

3. Greatzin repops - cheap and available. I put the Chinese CJ carbs in this category. These are the default carbs used on most "mass market renovations"

4. There is a German vendor called Kla-Mo-Te who attends Veterama and sells on ebay periodically. His name is Martin Schumann and he has some authentic looking repops (I suspect they are the British repops). I will post his contact info tomorrow.

5. At Veterama last October there was a new Hungarian vendor who is making authentic repops of some Fischer Amal models. I will also post his contact info tomorrow.

1 and 3 will certainly be the cheapest and should work. You will probably have to go through some rejetting and tinkering to get them sorted.

If you want something that looks a bit more correct, the British Amals should work. (the correctness police will already dock you for converting from the single, so looking more correct may not be an issue).

There is also a Bing replacement for the R35 and R12 Sum carbs. Kla-Mo-Te and others have advertised them. I don't know if those would be of interest or if it will bolt up to your manifold, but you could keep the single carb setup and not worrying about two throttle cables, although a splitter is not hard to do.

Good luck!

Bruce

Barry Robin
Barry Robin's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #52
San Francisco, Ca.
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 204
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

now that's what call a serious reply, bruce! been giving these carbs some thought before this? Smile

thanks for offering to look up those sites-i'd certainly appreciate any links you can come up with.

i do realise the correctness police will notice two carbs on my series three when they weren't offered untill the last production year-but they don't have to worry about getting up the hills in san francisco. two carbs also solve the problem of my air intake tube being too close to the cover of the points, making it near impossible to adjust them without removing the whole carb set-up.

now, just to ask, do you have an opinion if the graetzin knock-offs are better from russia or china? (god, i can't belive i'm actually asking this question on the vintage forum!)

i know! we'll sneak over to peter nettesheim's place. while you yell "look, there's elvis!", i'll run in to see if there's an extra set of the right carbs sitting on his bench and leave behind a huge wad of cash...sorry about joking peter; couldn't resist.

yea, right. dont'cha just love unobtainium?

-b

Bruce Frey
Bruce Frey's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6316
Texas Hill Country, USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 574
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

Well, I do have a life beyond BMW carburetors..although my wife sometimes questions my sanity. Let's call it accumulated knowledge Smile

Here is the contact info for the vendors.

KLA-MOT-TE
Martin Schumann
Erlenstrasse 48
D-45964 Gladbeck (Nord-Ruhrgebiet) DE
+49 2043-681533 Tel
+49 177 321 5484 Mobil
+49 2043-28749 Fax
Mortphonograaf@aol.com
klamotte2006@aol.com

http://www.reproclassic.eu/index.php?mkod=20&modul=termek&nyelv=eng

I do not know if there is any difference between the Graetzin repops.

Cheers,

Bruce

Barry Robin
Barry Robin's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #52
San Francisco, Ca.
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 204
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

well, it looks like i've lots'o choices...

i've written martin schulmann in my half english and half german sort of way. he hasn't answered yet but i assume he's a part-timer, like most of us...it's not like he has a web site and 24 hour phone line. or perhaps my german is so bad that he won't write back...nah.

there's a guy on german ebay who advertises rebuilt prewar bings named mark and goes by the monicker "phonograff". they certainly look the part but at $800 a pair it might be too rich for my blood.

-b

Bruce Frey
Bruce Frey's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6316
Texas Hill Country, USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 574
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

"Barry Robin" wrote:

well, it looks like i've lots'o choices...

i've written martin schulmann in my half english and half german .........
there's a guy on german ebay who advertises rebuilt prewar bings named mark and goes by the monicker "phonograff". they certainly look the part but at $800 a pair it might be too rich for my blood.
-b

Martin Schumann is Phonograff.

Bruce

Barry Robin
Barry Robin's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #52
San Francisco, Ca.
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 204
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

"-Martin Schumann is Phonograff."

oh.

well, that explains a few things! he tells me he's got a good backstock of parts to make up sets for me- i'll see what he can come up with.

here's the one he has on ebay:

http://www.vintagebmw.org/forums/posting.php?mode=reply&t=1427

might get it...now all i need is to either fix or replace my manifold.

Bruce Frey
Bruce Frey's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6316
Texas Hill Country, USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 574
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?
Barry Robin
Barry Robin's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #52
San Francisco, Ca.
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 204
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

hiy'a bruce-

ah yes, the well known repop. i once did a little checking up on it, and found that word on the street is that it's a little rough, as they say. besides having to hand finish the exterior casting, the all-important internal slide area needs to be honed and the piston polished. this ain't your grandma's plug-and-play...i don't mind getting my hands dirty, but i no longer have access to a shop or tools.
if they offered it ready to go-with an understandable surcharge, of course-i'd seriously think about it. jeez, if there was even a shop that offered the service...but i think finishing it at the present isn't realistic.

but all my blathering aside, i do appreciate the extra mile you went to for the reserch on my behalf. actually, you've always been rather helpful to all the prewar guys here. so...are you reallllly such a nice guy or is it memorex?
-b

Bruce Frey
Bruce Frey's picture
 Offline
VBMWMO #6316
Texas Hill Country, USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 574
what's the best replacemect carbs on an R11/R16?

"Barry Robin" wrote:

i once did a little checking up on it, and found that word on the street is that it's a little rough, as they say. besides having to hand finish the exterior casting, the all-important internal slide area needs to be honed and the piston polished. -b

You are right about the carb. That is really the problem with most of the eastern European repops...the last 10 or 20%. If they would do 100%, they could probably double their prices.

Bruce

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.