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R50Bill
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U guys don't have a new members section, so I guess this is the place to post up. :mrgreen:

Just took delivery of a '67 R50/2 with Earles forks and rubber seats, owned for many years by a close friend who eventually got too busy and lost interest.

When I say 'took delivery', I really meant that I bought it in March, but I just got it back from John Long's shop; that's 'Long' as in it took forever to get it back from him. Tongue

John re-built the carbs, replaced all the cables, both tires and the driver's seat. Sounds good, but needs paint and various cosmetics. I'll post pics after Thanksgiving and you guys can tell me if anything is 'incorrect' for that model year, any advice as to what I should do first will be greatly appreciated! Big Grin

R50Bill
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Newbie!

Oh yeah, since I think most of you are probably freezing your tails off, here's a pic of my customized turbo New Beetle convertible sittin' pretty under a palm tree in 'fashion model rich' South Beach to keep you warm. Wink

Allan.Atherton
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Re: Newbie!

"R50Bill" wrote:

... took delivery of a '67 R50/2... just got it back from John Long's shop...

At http://www.longevityracing.com/longs_motorcycle.htm
I will email you with names/addresses of a couple of other local /2ers.

jeff dean
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R50Bill
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Re: Newbie!

"Allan.Atherton" wrote:
"R50Bill" wrote:

... took delivery of a '67 R50/2... just got it back from John Long's shop...

At http://www.longevityracing.com/longs_motorcycle.htm
I will email you with names/addresses of a couple of other local /2ers.

:thumbsup:

R50Bill
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Yeah, mine looks EXACTLY like yours Jeff. Lucky dog. Laughing

R50Bill
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Pix!

OK, so here it is.

First up tho' is this:

"Hi John,

I started up the bike, went up and down the street a few times, it ran rough and kept stalling while rolling, I also smelled gas. I filled the tank and at both the Reserve and On settings there is mass leakage from the left side carburetor, both at the top where there are two adjacent nuts and also at the very bottom, however, there are no apparent loose hoses.

Besides this, the front forks are loose at the frame, the speedometer doesn’t work, nor does the brake tail light nor do the blinkers. The forks look like they simply need new washers or rubber bushings, the electrical is probably an easy wiring fix.

After 7 months and $xxxx+ I really expected better results. I thought you had completely rebuilt the carburetors? Did you even test ride it?

I’d appreciate a prompt fix on the carburetor leakage so I can at least start it. I have the bike outside sitting on plywood; it would be great if you could stop by during the day this week with a few tools to take a look at it.

Bill Squire"

Response:

"Yes, I test rode it and rebuilt the carbs, except for the floats themselves, which sometimes sink because of a small hole in the solder.

John Long"

R50Bill
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VBMWMO #7334
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R50Bill
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Newbie!

R50Bill
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I ran it up and down the street maybe 4 times, bike sounds awesome.

Kinda rusty, how about Euro handle bars?

Rusty again, can I get a new ring?

Frame painting is a consideration, do you recommend paint or powdercoating?

R50Bill
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schrader7032
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It does sound like the floats aren't floating anymore. Or the the float is not creating the right kind of seal at the inlet to the carb. Does it still drain gas with the petcocks in the off position? If so, you have two problems...

It's not a difficult thing to do take off the top of the carb. If they're not used on a regular basis, this sort of thing can happen.

That's an aftermarket mirror...I have a set that attach like that...I can't live with just the LH mirror.

Check with Vech in Mississippi...he can probably get you some of the replacement bits and pieces...

Kurt in S.A.

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R50Bill
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R50Bill
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"schrader7032" wrote:

It does sound like the floats aren't floating anymore. Or the the float is not creating the right kind of seal at the inlet to the carb. Does it still drain gas with the petcocks in the off position? If so, you have two problems...

No, only in the two positions I mentioned.

R50Bill
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Speedo. Supposed to be real mileage on original, un-rebuilt engine. Last owner bought it 10 year ago from a 'farmer'.

R50Bill
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R50Bill
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Looks like a worn bushing at the strut bottom, right?

Allan.Atherton
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Re: Pix!

"R50Bill" wrote:

... After 7 months and $xxxx+ I really expected better results....

Reminds me of my previous owner. He paid top dollar for the bike, and it arrived a weathered-out mess. It was his first BMW, so naturally he left it at the local BMW dealer. Where it stayed for 6 months and $4,000 worth of parts and work that any of us could have done for $1,000. But at least it was better than yours. I am very disappointed in this news about John Long's shop. Although it is a generic bike shop, he has plenty of experience and resources to deal with vintage BMWs.

You should try to wean yourself from Longs. All the parts your bike needs are instantly available online, and easily installed.

For instance, your mirror threads are stripped out. Send the control casting to Bobs BMW for an insert, or order one to install yourself from Ed Korn Cycle Works. You can buy headlight mirrors for $100 (Bumm repros from Blue Moon Cycle) to $150 (Albert recreations from Bench Mark Works), but your field of view will be very restricted, especially sitting back behind those wide US handlebars.

R50Bill
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The number was actually only $2K, which included 2 new tires, new rubber seats, all new cabling plus the carb rebuilds. I only paid $3K for the bike, so I'm in for $5K.

EuroIron
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I think that is a very realistic aspiration especially if you will be doing the wrenching yourself.

For sure those cases, like many before the diecast era, are quite porous.

You may have a hard time finding a public consensus to support such a notion since it would cast a somewhat bad light on any established and reputable engine builder that strictly does not make any attempt to seal such cases during a rebuild. Just as it would many intelligent owners who lacked the forethought to demand such.

I have similar thoughts on similar by the book practices as relate to other internal engine practices, but no need for me to rock any boats today.

R50Bill
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"EuroIron" wrote:

I think that is a very realistic aspiration especially if you will be doing the wrenching yourself.

For sure those cases, like many before the diecast era, are quite porous.

You may have a hard time finding a public consensus to support such a notion since it would cast a somewhat bad light on any established and reputable engine builder that strictly does not make any attempt to seal such cases during a rebuild. Just as it would many intelligent owners who lacked the forethought to demand such.

I have similar thoughts on similar by the book practices as relate to other internal engine practices, but no need for me to rock any boats today.

I"m in a learning curve right now, so I really had no idea the carb cases were porous, they look quite a bit like the oil filled carbs I had on a succession of MG/Austin Healey's in the 70's. Thx for the info!

R50Bill
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Well ladeda, I got a call from John Long today, he wants to drop by to do the repair. This is totally out of character for him, so who here called him? Wink

R50Bill
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John came by the house today, he/we spent about 2 hours going over the bike.

Double ground wire was snapped from the ground nut, it was on the wrong nut, stripped it and fitted it to the correct nut, now blinkers and tail/brake lights work.

Nut replaced that was missing from the front of the frame, the one at the bottom the top adustment knob goes down to.

Floats dropped in on both sides, fuel mixture and idle adjusted, ran like a champ. A very slight amount of fuel is coming from the fuelcock (?), may need a washer or complete replacement.

Bushings for the struts need a press, so I'll hafta take 'em off and have John put 'em in. I have the bushings already, but the bolts and nuts are all wrong, they're mix and match US sizes, so I'll hafta order those.

We chatted about other stuff for a while, said our good-byes, he drove off, so I thought I'd take it for a test drive.

Battery was dead. :roll:

schrader7032
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"R50Bill" wrote:

We chatted about other stuff for a while, said our good-byes, he drove off, so I thought I'd take it for a test drive.

Battery was dead. :roll:

The battery is not needed to start and run the bike. Lights might to be up to full brightness. Otherwise, ride during the daytime...

Kurt in S.A.

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R50Bill
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Hmmmm, couldn't get it started, let me try again, thx!

Battery is old anyway, any recommendations on a sealed 6-volt?

jeff dean
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Less than $30 at Batteries Plus:

http://www.batteriesplus.com/p-32644-werker-6v-14ah-battery-with-s-termi...

I have one on each of my slash-2s.

R50Bill
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Doh! John turned off the fuel. :oops: Laughing

Started right up, lights work fine. Drove it around the neighborhood and it's still not 'right'. You're cruising along and all of a sudden it gets bogged down, you rev it a bit, it clears itself, then it does it again. Any thoughts?

EuroIron
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bogged down?

soft or hard?

off the hip I'd guess hard bucking and jerking and maybe you have a float problem or even severely worn needle jets

if soft, maybe you have a fuel delivery issue or maybe a vacuum leak or maybe a plugged jet, but I don't think so

not a bad idea to make sure your advance unit isn't sticking, I don't think it's related to the bogging, but I haven't eaten your brain or ridden the bike

schrader7032
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Vech at Bench Mark Works sells a battery for the bike. You might also want to consider getting a 6-volt battery tender.

Sounds like you've got something amiss in the carbs. Possibly the floats don't drop enough to allow more gas in. You rev the engine and it shakes things so that the floats drop a bit, etc. The next time it bogs down, try hitting the tickers quickly for a 1-second count and see if it starts running again, without having to rev the engine.

Kurt in S.A.

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R50Bill
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"EuroIron" wrote:

bogged down?

soft or hard?

off the hip I'd guess hard bucking and jerking and maybe you have a float problem or even severely worn needle jets

if soft, maybe you have a fuel delivery issue or maybe a vacuum leak or maybe a plugged jet, but I don't think so

not a bad idea to make sure your advance unit isn't sticking, I don't think it's related to the bogging, but I haven't eaten your brain or ridden the bike

Soft I guess, I'm just tooling along and all of sudden it starts running like sh*t.

The floats are brand new remember.

R50Bill
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"schrader7032" wrote:

The next time it bogs down, try hitting the tickers quickly for a 1-second count and see if it starts running again, without having to rev the engine.

Kurt in S.A.

Will do, thx!

R50Bill
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Just came in from toying w/ the bike. Started right up on the first kick. :thumbup:

Revved it a few times, sounded clean, then let it idle for about 5 minutes.

Revved it again and it was bogged down, it almost died, so I quickly revved it thru the bog, then let off the throttle to see if it would idle, but it died. Gave up after 20 kicks, could not get it started again. The same thing happened yesterday.

Yeah, I know Kurt, I shoulda hit the tickers. Next time. :roll: :mrgreen:

R50Bill
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Can not get it started after numerous attempts thru the day Sunday, acts like it has no gas, but tank is full. Bad fuelcock maybe?

schrader7032
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RE: the no-start... Could it also be flooded? If flooded, you'll need to kick a number of times with the throttle wide open. Note that opening the throttle leans the carbs out, so consider this when trying to start the bike.

You could pull the fuel line that enters the top of the carb and see if fuel is flowing. Seems unlikely that the petcocks would be the problem. But you might also try measuring the flow rate out of the tank. Put the end of the fuel line into a measuring cup and turn the petcock on for different periods of time, like 5, 10, 15 seconds. Measure the amount of fuel and compute a quantity per minute or hour. I forget exactly the flow rate you need...it's probably on Duane's site, but that info can be found.

I'm wondering if you should revisit you're starting routine. Each bike requires just a little different process depending on the state of tune and carb setup. How much to tickle, how to use the throttle, etc. I've finally settled in on a good routine on my R69S. A couple of things that I do that, I hope, helps it start. After I tickle each carb, I kick through 3-4 times, key off and throttle closed. Then I turn the ignition on and with little to no throttle, kick it...it usually starts first or second kick.

One time after a ride, I filled up with gas. I figured I didn't need to tickle the carbs, but it wouldn't start. I gave the carbs a tickle for a couple of seconds and it started up first kick. I guess my bike is setup to need some amount of tickling before it will start.

Kurt in S.A.

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R50Bill
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Might have primed it too many times, I usually do 4 per side.

I'll try your technique tonight, thx! Big Grin

EuroIron
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when I made reference to the porous cases

I was talking about the engine and trans castings

the carb castings generally aren't the least bit porous until they become attacked and get cancer

Bruce Frey
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What do you seal the inside of cases with to "fix" the porous aluminum?

Bruce

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r50 in need of tlc

Hello Bill; I have no insights concerning the fixes needed or your ability to trouble shoot them, etc..
I am originally from Ft. Laud. and now am in Ga.
I have experience in buying into vintage BMW's (69 R60 US; 73 75/5; 55 25/3) and needing someone to go over entrie bike with me, traiging issues; developing a game plan for fix and spend parameters and doing better than commited to.
I use Nathan Mendes (and Dean) at Boxerworks in Watkinsville, Ga.
Other fine shops everywhere I'm sure, but over the past 7 years Natan and Dean have been great to work with and I have bikes I ride all over the south and put into shows.
He has a web site (www.boxerworks.com) that you can access; give him a call.
From personal experience I know it is not that long a haul to trailer it up.
If you have set aside XXX $$$ in your mind to get it right, then do it right the 1st time and learne to wrench it right to keep it there. Too many small "expert only" little things can lead to a lot of annoyance needlessly.
My 2 cents - Mark

R50Bill
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"schrader7032" wrote:

I'm wondering if you should revisit you're starting routine. Each bike requires just a little different process depending on the state of tune and carb setup. How much to tickle, how to use the throttle, etc. I've finally settled in on a good routine on my R69S. A couple of things that I do that, I hope, helps it start. After I tickle each carb, I kick through 3-4 times, key off and throttle closed. Then I turn the ignition on and with little to no throttle, kick it...it usually starts first or second kick.

Kurt in S.A.

IT WORKED MAN!!! :shock: Big Grin

Bruce Frey
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Internal? Engine Sealer

"EuroIron" wrote:

........For sure those cases, like many before the diecast era, are quite porous.

You may have a hard time finding a public consensus to support such a notion since it would cast a somewhat bad light on any established and reputable engine builder that strictly does not make any attempt to seal such cases during a rebuild. Just as it would many intelligent owners who lacked the forethought to demand such.

I have similar thoughts on similar by the book practices as relate to other internal engine practices, but no need for me to rock any boats today.

What type of product is used for this? Is this an internal coating? What sticks to porous, oil impregnated aluminum castings? Curious minds want to know.

Ciao,

Bruce

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Hey guys, been gone a while, been busy raising my grandkid, uhhhh, I mean my new kid (I got tired of waiting for my eldest son to have one, so I had my own). :mrgreen:

Misplaced all the title/paperwork, DOH!, but the wifey finally found it inside an old BMW motorcyle book it came with, so got new plates, but still hafta get my m/cycle license. :roll:

Started it up last weekend, kicked right over after months of sitting covered and dry, woohoo! :thumbup:

I noticed light grey smoke 'wisping' from the engine, on both sides where the exhaust pipes exit the block. It did not go away after 15 minutes of idling, is this normal? Sad

schrader7032
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Just exactly where does the smoke come from? Do you hear any spitting of air around the exhaust nuts? Sounds like the exhaust nuts are not as tight as they should be. Make sure you've got some high temp anti-sieze on those threads. If you try and loosen the nuts and they tighten up after moving a small amount, most likely they're beginning to gall the threads. You'll need to perform delicate surgery to cut off the old nuts.

Kurt in S.A.

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R50Bill
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"schrader7032" wrote:

You'll need to perform delicate surgery to cut off the old nuts.

Kurt in S.A.

LOL. Tongue

Yeah, it comes from that area, but I'll hafta lean down to see if I can hear anything. Is it a major concern or just a PITA leak?

schrader7032
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Hmmm...not sure if it's critical. I wouldn't think the bike should smoke like that...possibly it might during break-in. Could mean some kind of oil leak past the exhaust valve guides?? I have some minor air spitting when I first start my R69S but it goes away after a few miles...I think the exhaust nuts could be tighter but everything expands after being heated. I'm just a little chicken to keep tightening the nuts!

Kurt in S.A.

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Allan.Atherton
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"R50Bill" wrote:

... I'll hafta lean down to see if I can hear anything. Is it a major concern or just a PITA leak?

A wisp of smoke might not be a leak, but could also be some residue burning off. If combustion smoke is able to come from a leak, then more will be coming out of the mufflers. And that much combustion smoke indicates a problem with rings and/or valve guides.

You said the R50/2 sat outside in the Florida sun and rain for two years, so there could have been a film of rust in the cylinders. Starting the engine swept off the rust into the slingers, and left a poor surface on the cylinders. Perhaps you should take a look and consider a honing and re-ringing, if there are no pits requiring a rebore.

A leak itself is only of concern to your ears. However, if you decide to fix it, proceed carefully. The first direction to turn is NOT to tighten the exhaust nut. Turn the other way to loosen.

If the nut loosens readily, then loosen the whole exhaust system both sides, get new crush gaskets, apply anti-seize to both the nuts and the spigots, and with the headers free to move, tighten the nuts up so they evenly crush the gaskets. Only then tighten the rest of the system working from front to rear.

If the nut does not loosen readily, but gets tighter at any point, it means that galling is beginning. The steel nut is trying to remove the aluminum threads. You can try squirting a penetrant into the threads, and it might allow more movement. But likely you could have a quandry. Removing the nut might ruin the spigot, so the head must be sent off to have new threads welded up and cut. Or, you could saw off the nut carefully to save the spigot threads, only to find they are previously messed up, plus the nut is captive to (part of) the header and you must buy a new header. In the case of captive nuts (R50-60, not 69S), I would just as soon ruin and repair the spigot, since it is often already in poor shape, and not try to cut that hard steel nut. Spigot repair is cheaper than a header pipe.

R50Bill
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"Allan.Atherton" wrote:
"R50Bill" wrote:

... I'll hafta lean down to see if I can hear anything. Is it a major concern or just a PITA leak?

A wisp of smoke might not be a leak, but could also be some residue burning off. If combustion smoke is able to come from a leak, then more will be coming out of the mufflers. And that much combustion smoke indicates a problem with rings and/or valve guides.

You said the R50/2 sat outside in the Florida sun and rain for two years, so there could have been a film of rust in the cylinders. Starting the engine swept off the rust into the slingers, and left a poor surface on the cylinders. Perhaps you should take a look and consider a honing and re-ringing, if there are no pits requiring a rebore.

A leak itself is only of concern to your ears. However, if you decide to fix it, proceed carefully. The first direction to turn is NOT to tighten the exhaust nut. Turn the other way to loosen.

If the nut loosens readily, then loosen the whole exhaust system both sides, get new crush gaskets, apply anti-seize to both the nuts and the spigots, and with the headers free to move, tighten the nuts up so they evenly crush the gaskets. Only then tighten the rest of the system working from front to rear.

If the nut does not loosen readily, but gets tighter at any point, it means that galling is beginning. The steel nut is trying to remove the aluminum threads. You can try squirting a penetrant into the threads, and it might allow more movement. But likely you could have a quandry. Removing the nut might ruin the spigot, so the head must be sent off to have new threads welded up and cut. Or, you could saw off the nut carefully to save the spigot threads, only to find they are previously messed up, plus the nut is captive to (part of) the header and you must buy a new header. In the case of captive nuts (R50-60, not 69S), I would just as soon ruin and repair the spigot, since it is often already in poor shape, and not try to cut that hard steel nut. Spigot repair is cheaper than a header pipe.

Ok, sounds like a job for a professional, back it goes to John's shop I guess, arg...

Bruce Frey
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To me, "wispy" smoke is more likely crud on the outside of the cylinders cooking off.....it can take awhile. Drive it and see if it stops.

Be careful about letting an air cooled engine idle for an extended period without some air flow over the cylinders. Every old BMW bike owner should have a floor fan in their shop.

Good luck,

Bruce

R50Bill
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Miami, Florida
Joined: 11/20/2007
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Newbie!

"Bruce Frey" wrote:

To me, "wispy" smoke is more likely crud on the outside of the cylinders cooking off.....it can take awhile. Drive it and see if it stops.

Be careful about letting an air cooled engine idle for an extended period without some air flow over the cylinders. Every old BMW bike owner should have a floor fan in their shop.

Good luck,

Bruce

Oops. :oops: Well, it is outside, is that any better? I've never let it idle more than 15 minutes or so.

I'll drive it a bit this weekend and see if it goes away. I'll take a few pics too, thx guys! Big Grin

Allan.Atherton
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"R50Bill" wrote:

... I've never let it idle more than 15 minutes or so...

That is not good, and I don't see any reason for it. A cold engine is such a heat sink that no harm would happen. On an engine already hot from a ride, on a hot summer day, there could be a problem. The cylinders would become hotter than they are supposed to be, non-synthetic oil could break down, and if the engine was still new or tightly rebored, piston seizure could occur.

R50Bill
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Miami, Florida
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"Allan.Atherton" wrote:
"R50Bill" wrote:

... I've never let it idle more than 15 minutes or so...

That is not good, and I don't see any reason for it. A cold engine is such a heat sink that no harm would happen. On an engine already hot from a ride, on a hot summer day, there could be a problem. The cylinders would become hotter than they are supposed to be, non-synthetic oil could break down, and if the engine was still new or tightly rebored, piston seizure could occur.

Nonono, I let it idle from a cold start after sitting for 6-8 weeks, I never rode it around and then let it idle.

BTW, can we run synth oil?

Darryl.Richman
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"R50Bill" wrote:

Nonono, I let it idle from a cold start after sitting for 6-8 weeks, I never rode it around and then let it idle.

What Allan is getting at is that just letting the bike idle, even from a cold start, for more than just a couple minutes, can be bad for the motor.

BMW's aircooled bikes depend on air flowing over the cylinders to keep them within their proper operating temperature range. If you visit a dealership, they will invariably have a large fan that they put in front of bikes while they are setting and synchronizing the carbs.

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