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tonyo
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I am close to buying a pristine 1964 Grenada red R50/2 that lacks saddle bags. I have seen enduro style bags on similar bikes but none that are available. I think the enduro style suits the design better than the suitcase… Suggestions anyone?

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TonyO

schrader7032
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See if you find anything that

See if you find anything that suits your fancy here:

http://w6rec.com/history-of-saddle-bags/

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

miller6997
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Choice of bags

The Wixoms, originally available in black or white, look good and are reasonably sturdy. Good originals show up from time to time on ebay. In terms of styling, I think the Enduros look even better than the Wixoms, but the ones that were available when the bikes were new were flimsy. You can see both of these in the link Kurt supplied.

The currently made "Enduro-style" versions --made by Oldtimer-- look sensational but are seriously expensive--around $900 with paint, lights and mounting hardware.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

tonyo
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Thanks. Bike first……

Thanks. Bike first……

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TonyO

tonyo
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These look terrific and, as

These look terrific and, as you say, expensive, but…

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TonyO

Slash2
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I may be alone

I may be alone on this one but for me it's really no question. The Craven luggage made in Britain is IMO not only the best looking, but also the most functional.

The flimsy lids and bazaar shape of the Enduros, while streamlined, lack the simplicity of a standard briefcase design, have low volume and aren't easily loaded. The mounting brackets are ugly and look absurd without the bags mounted.

If you're getting bags for aesthetics only, then just pick whichever you fancy, if however you're planning to use them, it's gotta be Craven.

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64' R60/2 - 66' R27 - 51' R67 - 68' R69S
88' R100RS - 06' K12R

schrader7032
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San Antonio, TX
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Here's your

Here's your "goal":

http://bmwdean.com/scarlett.htm

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

stagewex
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I have a pair of original

I have a pair of original Enduros. They are in excellent condition but even new (1969) they were crude and rough.
I like them because they are original or at least original after-market accessories.

The reproductions are built much, much better and the hanging hardware is excellent. Some folks have bought the hanging/attachement hardware only to use with the original bags, that's how good the new stuff is.

At $900.00 for the brand-new reproductions... not really much in comparison to what I'm seeing originals going for, $1500 to $2500.00 on-line. And the sellers are getting their asking prices if in decent shape. Crazy.

You can get a lot of stuff in the Enduros and the look is ridiculously modernistic nostalgic. Certainly unique.

So silly looking:

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mike wex/stagewex
1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

miller6997
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Cravens

I can't argue with your preference for Cravens. Looking just at the handsome cases by themselves, they are a better practical design, no argument. When mounted, however, they are so oversized and placed so far back on the frame, they are out of balance with the rest of the bike. To my eye, they destroy the lines and just look awkward.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

scottiesharpe
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High remarks for the products

High remarks for the products coming out of http://oldtimers.si/en/bags-enduro-saddle-bags-ready-for-bmw-r26-r27-r50...

I bought a set and I am impressed.

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Scottie Sharpe, Proprietor
Scottie's Workshop, Santa Clara CA
Full Service repairs, maintenance and restoration workshop for vintage and classic BMW Motorcycles http://blog.scottiesharpe.com

skychs
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Enduro Bags

I have a set of the original Enduro bags for my /2. I had to restore them and replace the original mounts but they look great and are very practical.

Here is the link to my restoration of the bags.

http://www.vintagebmw.org/v7/node/13917

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miller6997
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How was the purchase

Scottie,

I am very tempted by the Oldtimer bags. How did the purchase go for you? Were they easy to order and pay for? How long did the delivery take?

Jon

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

waldoverkill
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Oldtimer Purchase

Hi Jon

I purchased a pair of these for my 68 R60/2.

Delivery took about 3 weeks to New Zealand. I bought them unpainted. They are very nice. I had to modify the lower mounting brackets slightly but it was not a big deal.

The BMW logos that come with them are just stickers so I bought some "real" ones. The lamps that come with them are quite plasticky so I bought some hellas from ebay.

Now I just need to get them painted.

R68
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In my opinion...

...the only really usable bags are Cravens, but the Craven mounting system places these too far back on the motorcycle? You can make your own mounts to place the bags more forward, or if you can find them, mount the Cravens on Denfeld mounts, as shown here...

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skychs
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sadlebags

Im sure the Craven saddlebags are original and a fine product. The problem I have with them is .... I just don't like the look of the suitcase style bag. The Enduro's fit the lines of the old /2's so much better IMHO. In regards to use, I don't have any issue loading the bags up for a long trip.

triddell
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Check with Benchmark Works

Check with Benchmark Works for the new Enduros, they come with mounts and look good. I think they get them from Old timers.

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Lexington KY

miller6997
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Only unpainted

As far as I can tell, Benchmark offers only the unpainted version of the Oldtimer bags. If he offered the painted ones, I would definitely be interested.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

tonyo
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The Benchmark Enduros capture

The Benchmark Enduros capture the vintage look even as the Craven appear to have an upper hand with respect to quality and practicality. I am leaning toward unpainted Benchmark Enduros to go with my nearly-acquired Grenada red R50/2 in large measure because of their shape. The worst outcome, that I don't like them for one reason or another, allows me to get Cravens…… Thank you, all for your advice and info!

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TonyO

tonyo
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Does anyone with Benchmark/

Does anyone with Benchmark/ Old-timer bags have photos of the bike without the bags mounted? What's involved in mounting/ removing the bags? Can they be 'popped' on and off with the same ease as modern luggage?

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TonyO

schrader7032
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San Antonio, TX
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Have a look through this

Have a look through this lengthy thread...your question might be answered here:

http://vintagebmw.org/v7/node/11921

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

waldoverkill
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Here is my R60/2 with the

Here is my R60/2 with the mounts but no bags.

I will probably paint the mounts black.

Cheers

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tonyo
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Anyone have suggestions for

Anyone have suggestions for taking a perfectly good pair of Craven Golden Arrow panniers (maybe even a new set) and painting them Grenada red?

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TonyO

tonyo
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Anyone know how I can contact

Anyone know how I can contact Jeff Dean about his red /60 red Cravens saddlebags?

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TonyO

schrader7032
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Jeff is a member of this

Jeff is a member of this club. You can send him a message. His profile shows that his email is:

jeff@bmwdean.com

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

miller6997
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Oldtimer versus original Enduro

After long deliberation, I just ordered a set of Oldtimer bags for my R69S. With shipping and bank fee, the cost was a bit over $1000. This morning, I noticed this ebay listing for a decent but not outstanding set of originals.

I think I made the right decision.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

stagewex
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Holy Cow. If that guy get

Holy Cow. If that guy get $2000.00 for those mine must be worth $3000.00. Crazy.

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mike wex/stagewex
1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

skychs
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bags

My guess is they will be on eBay for a long long time at that price. bobsbmw too. Wow. Ridiculous

miller6997
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No bids

Apparently Max overreached by asking two grand for those original Enduro bags. The auction ended with no bids.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

stagewex
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I believe that was "Bob's

I believe that was "Bob's BMW" that was selling those bags.
You never know when an auction ends. Someone could have made an offer outside of fleabay? Or the fact that they had it for auction is just a way of letting folks know they are advertising them and have a vintage pair in stock. Someone that really wants them may pay up for them, ya never know.

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mike wex/stagewex
1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

Daves79x
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A Mint Set

A mint set of the original enduros might be worth what a new repro set costs, but no more. And if the latches and hardware need work (they usually do), then less. Then you still have 50 year-old bags that leak and do not look as good or function as well as the repros. But that's just me.

Dave

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Dave

miller6997
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Stand corrected...

Yes, it was Bob's, not Max. East of the Mississippi, everything melds together for us left-coasters.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

Daves79x
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Likewise

Likewise, Jon!!

Dave

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Dave

miller6997
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Mounting the Oldtimer bags

My saddlebags from Oldtimers arrived last Friday and I am working through the installation. The quality of the bags is as good as I hoped, and the installation is not difficult. I especially appreciate the robust hinges that attach the lids to the bags--correcting a problem with lost lids on the original Enduros. I did encounter one glitch because of my stainless Keihan mufflers. The Keihans look stock, but the welded tabs that attach them to the frame are thick enough to interfere with the lower saddlebag mounting brackets. Because of this, I conferred with the (responsive and helpful) folks at Oldtimers and then spent some time with the bench grinder, modifying the Oldtimer brackets to fit. Otherwise, the installation is straightforward and seems quite secure. It's a clever mounting system, and taking the bags off and putting them back on will be easy. As soon as I install the locks on the lids and apply the pinstriping (tape), I'll slap the bags on and post some pictures.

It has been noted in an earlier post here that the lights that are supplied with the bags are plastic. They are not bad and I will install them temporarily, but I've been searching for a pair of the original Hellas that were used in the old Enduros (Hella part number 2SA 997 022-001). As far as I can tell from a long Googling session, they are simply not available from any North American supplier. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this! I did find several places in the UK that still sell them. With shipping, it looks like they they will cost about $40.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

oldtimers.si
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oldtimers saddle bags hella lamps 2SA 997 022-001

hi, Guys
we can help you for hella lamps

2SA 997 022-001

hella lamp AGM UK

hella lamp DE

i will buy booth of them and ask look quality and report here Smile

regards,Mec

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  • agm_hella.jpg
miller6997
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Thanks, Mec

I notice that the prices for the two sellers are quite different. The UK source looks to be much less expensive. Let us know what you learn about shipping and quality.

Jon

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

stagewex
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I don't have my lights wired

I don't have the lights wired on my original enduros. But I think they are plastic len's, never were glass.
I'm going to check when I get home.

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1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

miller6997
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The lens is probably plastic

If memory serves, the lenses on the original Hellas are probably plastic, but the bezels should be chrome and the bodies should be metal.

Your originals, by the way, look really good.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

stagewex
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Yep, bezels are Chrome, len's

Thanks.
Yep, bezels are real chrome but the len's are plastic. I think that was the way they came when new too?
But it looks like you could swap out the plastic for glass if you can locate them.

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mike wex/stagewex
1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

miller6997
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Never seen glass lenses

Hella accessory lights were very common on European cars and bikes, and as far as I know the lenses were always plastic.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

miller6997
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Found the Hella lights

With a little searching, I found the Hella running lights on eBay UK. A pair cost $47, including shipping, and they arrived in five days. The festoon bulbs were not included, but they are not expensive and not hard to find.

The lights are a little more robust than the ones supplied by Oldtimers, but the difference is not dramatic. The base to which the Hella bulb socket is attached is a lightweight metal. The Hella bezels look like they may be burnished aluminum, or possibly stainless. They are definitely not chromed. The red plastic lenses, so far as I can tell, are identical on the two sets.

While they will serve as running lights, I don't think these will be adequate as turn signals, which is what I intended to use them for. I have a 12V conversion, so now I'll launch a search for the brightest possible festoon bulbs, including LEDs.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
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skychs
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Hella lights

Until I modify my Enduro bag lights (dual filaments) Im just using them as extra brake lights. I have LED's in my main tail light but not the Enduro lights, yet. I highly recommend the LED's even with the 12v system because they last so long and tend to be brighter.

Here is a link several of us have used in the past for LED's.

http://www.vintagebmw.org/v7/node/14125

miller6997
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LED Link

Thanks for reminding me of that LED source. I'll check them out.

In searching, I have found a lot of LED festoon bulbs, but it's hard to guess which ones will be the best. Most of them are intended for interior applications--dome lights and such--and here's no standard way of comparing their properties. The lumen claims, for example range from 100 to 1200 for bulbs that are all described as "super bright."

Before I bought the bags I had a set of /5 turn signals on the bike that were very bright, and if I can't get very close to that standard, I'll probably install a set of Jerry Skene's "Proton blasters" alongside the license plate. I don't want the bike to look like a Christmas tree, but I do care about being seen.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

miller6997
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Oldtimer installation

I've just about finished the installation of the Oldtimer saddlebags. I'm still thinking about how to deal with the lights, but right now, I'm dealing with the installation of the tape-on pinstripes. Given my fumble-fingers, the probability of a clean installation is pretty low, and I rather like the look of the bags without the stripes.

Show of hands: Should I leave the stripes off?

The roundel "badges" supplied in the kit are also stick-on. I'll apply them temporarily and get a set of real ceramic ones to replace them.

  • oldtimer_installation.jpg
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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
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wa1nca
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Ashfield Ma.
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Stripes

I think they would look much better with the stripes

Does anybody have a pic of those bags with the supplied stripes?

I am sure you should be able to find someone (body shop ?)in your area that could apply them for you

Yes the ceramic roundels would look much better

Tommy

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Tommy Byrnes
54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

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Their website for
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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

skychs
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stripes

IMHO I think the stripe would look better on the smooth painted enduro bags.

On the original "textured" bags Im really enjoying them without the stripes.

  • img_6741.jpg
miller6997
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Oldtimer bag with stripes

Everyone I asked said that the bags should have the stripes. That was the correct decision. It's a fiddly process to get the stripes in the right place and secured without any kinks, but by taking my time I managed to get it right.

  • bag_with_stripes.jpg
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miller6997
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Installation finished

I finished the installation of the Oldtimer saddlebags. It's a clean and solid installation. I really like the way they look, but I would not call it a particularly easy task to complete. It's not a strenuous process by any means, but avoiding scratches is nerve-wracking. ;^}

On the right side I had to alter the bottom bracket quite a bit in order to avoid interference with the muffler mount. No two bikes are exactly alike, especially after half a century of use, so different owners may have different experiences in getting everything to fit. Once the mounting brackets are in place, the attachment is very solid and it is easy to install and remove the bags.

I still have to decide how to deal with the lights. I bought the appropriate Hella versions to replace the plastic ones supplied by Oldtimers. I ordered LED boards to replace the festoon bulbs, so that I can drop the current draw and increase the brightness. When I've completed that modification I can decide whether the lights are adequate for turn signals or whether they will just be used as running lights.

One minor detail: I painted the stainless mounting brackets black, which makes them much less visible with the bags in place.

Footnote: The sticker "badges" that come with the cases are the Serif version, which is not correct for the later /2s, so for $9 each I ordered more appropriate ones from Amazon. I'll continue to look for a good set of ceramic originals to finish the project. Details, details...

  • finished_bags.jpg
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Jon Miller
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skychs
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Like

I love the look of the bike. I love it even more with the new bags. Great job.

marksd100
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Sell?

Seeing this thread reminded me that I have some bags and fairing I'll never use. They are in pretty rough shape. Are these originals? Worth anything in this condition? I wasn't provided the mounting hardware.

I also have a fairing which I don't plan to use. From the picture, can you tell if BMW or aftermarket?

Obviously I can put it all on eBay and see what I get. As mentioned in this thread, there are some ridiculous prices being asked for bags (in much better shape but still ridiculous prices).

-- Mark

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stagewex
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I do not think the bags are

I do not think the bags are original as the real-deals were textured. However... they could have been somehow coated for smoothness if in poor original condition. I'm saying that because they look on the inside and back pretty crude and maybe an amateur fix.
The original Enduros are/were pretty crude.

That fairing is really nice. Do yo also have lowers and mounting hardware?

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mike wex/stagewex
1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

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