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Gossamer
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I'm about to get my hands on a 1959 R60.

This bike was brought back from Germany in the early 60's by my uncle.

I've not personally seen this bike in probably 30 years. I can't even tell you the last time it's been attempted to start. If i was to hazard a guess it would be close to 20-30 years as well. It's been in storage in a garage in central Wisconsin.

However I'm chomping at the bits to get my hands on it. I can't attest at this moment what it's overall condition is either but I expect to be here asking tons of questions. However i do believe the bike to be 100% complete and original which is the exciting part for me.

And yes I'm going to share lots of pictures as the project moves along.

Daves79x
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Sounds Exciting!

We anxiously await the details and pics!

Dave

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Dave

Gossamer
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Ok been along time and some

Ok been along time and some family issues but here are photos.

Hope to be in my possession soon.

Peruse the photos and any input is appreciated.

From what you can see what are my chances of restoring her to be road worthy againm

  • received_1801703676541948.jpeg
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  • received_1801703683208614.jpeg
  • received_1801703689875280.jpeg
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miller6997
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That's an R69!

That is not an R60. You've got your hands on a rare and much admired R69. And it looks like it's all there. Celebrate! (And make sure you save those license plates!!)

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

312Icarus
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Just curios, how can you tell

Just curios, how can you tell from those pictures it is a R69? Finned exhaust nuts?

Icarus

PS Nothing that some $$ and some work won’t fix. Looks pretty complete. I would tear down the engine and give it a once over before you try to start it, even though it would be tempting to do if it turns over. 40 years of crap in the engine to come loose and mangle the crank. I just went through that headache and expense on my ‘68 that had been sitting for 30 years.

Slinger service, and a good cleaning might be all it needs internally. I will posit that that the final drive gear oil has most likely seeped onto the brake shoes, so at the very least, pull the rear and give them a good look.

Have fun, there is no beginning and ultimately no end. I resurrected mine 3 years ago, and still tinker with it every day I ride it. Lots of fun, and many long looks. Funny, it was “modern” when I bought it in ‘73, now it is very dated.

Good luck and keep in touch,

Icarus

PPS. I now see the timing advance lever on the bar...Duh!

miller6997
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Identifying an R69

I see two indicators that it is an R69: the advance lever on the left handlebar and the valve covers, which are different from those on the R50 and R60 bikes. And yes, the finned exhaust nuts; I missed that.

I am intrigued by the stacked license plates. If they go back to when it was new, they will make a great display on the garage wall (not to mention the fact that they are likely to be valuable as well).

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
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312Icarus
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In my state, a year of

In my state, a year of manufacture plate with a collector registration is a legal plate as opposed to having a labeled “collector vehicle”. I run with my original ‘68 plate.

Icarus

Daves79x
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R69 Indeed

The bike is indeed an R69. You got you hands on a much-coveted BMW. Take your time and see what you have there. Are you inclined to do a full restoration?

Dave

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kfelt
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Same thing happened to me 25

Same thing happened to me 25 years ago. Not had any BMW's yet. The guy said 1956 R60. Had been sitting under a pile of auto parts for over 10 years. In 10 minutes had it running. $500.00 later it was mine. Was indeed an R69. Enjoy!!

Gossamer
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I'm not sure. I'd love to

I'm not sure. I'd love to make her showroom fresh and willing to spend 8 to 10k to do so.

Not sure what the value of the bike is but it's a cool family memento that needs to be brought back to life.

I.m sure I'm going to be here a.lot looking for parts, answers and questions.

I'm a trust when it comes to classic vehicles. I dont want it modernized I want her to look as close to showroom fresh as possible and original as possible.

40 years old hiding in a garage has me excited for this project

The Plunger
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It'll take every bit of $10k

It'll take every bit of $10k to get her right. I sure miss my '56, congrats.

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stwilliams
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Parts and Labor

Sorry to say, but 8-10k will not get it done.

Even if you are handy and mechanical, you can at least double that figure.

If it were my bike, with a family connection, I'd do the following.

Strip off all the excess bits and pieces like the funky handlebar riser extensions and get rid of any rotting rubber parts and the rotten bench seat. Drain and clean out as much old oil from the engine, final drive and trans. Replace whatever bearings you can reasonably access without significant disassembly (ie the wheels). Put new tires and rubber bits on (like the drive shaft boot, etc.) and get it running. (Or get it running, then replace the rubber bits, you decide.)

Of course you should ask your relative if it was running when put away years ago, or whether it was mothballed because of a significant motor problem. This would alter your course.

In essence, you can probably do a light mechanical restoration and ride it with the years of patina it has. At least enough to find out what if anything further needs to be done to the motor.

If you get hasty and tear the whole thing down, be prepared to invest closer to 20K to get that "factory fresh" look you mentioned. About half of that in new parts, the other half in paint, chrome, wheel lacing, crank, special tools and all the other work you might not be able to do yourself.

schrader7032
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To find out what model you

To find out what model you have, type the engine number into the box on the left hand side of the screen.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

miller6997
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Showroom fresh?

If you do decide to do a full "concours" registration, you may well spend $15-20K before you're done. However, an R69 in top condition can bring as much as $20K, so it might "pencil out" if you are concerned about not getting upside down on the restoration.

If you just sort out the mechanicals and get it into "acceptable" cosmetic condition, you can get it on the road for considerably less. It looks like it was well-used before it was parked, but you may get lucky and discover that it is still in rideable condition. Then you can peck away at it bit-by-bit as time and money permit. My R69S with 50K miles on it sat idle in my brother's garage for fourteen years before I brought it home. It took me a few days to get it running and roadworthy, and then I rode it for ten years before I had to do any serious work on it--slingers mainly.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

312Icarus
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I agree, doing a full

I agree, doing a full concours restoration doesn’t make much financial sense. I think you would be surprised at how nice it can look with a good deal of elbow grease. Your wheels and spokes look much nicer than mine at present. Much of the rust on the exhaust may come off. Agree on the rubber bits, recover the seat, or buy a solo seat instead. Do the slingers as suggested, and while you are in that far inspect the heads, maybe re ring. Drain and inspect the tank, redcote it if there is rust. Give the carbs a good going over. If they sat with fuel in them, it is going to take a bit to get them clean, probably multiple times. Drain and refil the trans, the drive line and the final drive. My final drive seeped after many years, but after a few rides with no real rear brakes it has since sealed itself. New brake linings after you have sorted any final drive leaks.

My guess is that unless it “broke” before it was parked, it will run pretty well with minimal effort.

Great find, keep in touch,

Icarus

Gossamer
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But I really like shiny

But I really like shiny things.

I hope to get it the weekend of the 23rd so I can better assess what it needs/does not need.

I dont think it broke down the owner just stopped riding then he had some personal issues
Etc.

Anyhow i.m. hoping to have some fun with this project.

I'd like it looking brand new but maybe some polish some fluids and some
TLC she will come back to life.

Anyhow I plan to be here with tons of questions so Im.gonna share
Experience with everyone as well

Daves79x
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From Recent Experience

From my recent restoration experiences, 10-15K will get you pretty close. But that's with you doing hours and hours of research, buying manuals and special tools, finding good platers, for both cad and chrome, a good, reasonable painter and the ability to do most of the mechanicals yourself. I jobbered out my wheel lacing, transmission and differential rebuild, paint and striping. I did everything else myself and had a little over 15K in an R50 restoration, including the purchase price.

Be prepared for a lot of research and work, but it indeed will be rewarding. Yes, a well-done R69 is worth $20K.

Dave

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Gossamer
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Ok dont laugh at me but what

Ok dont laugh at me but what is a slinger?

Seen that term used a few times in the thread.

I'm sure I could search but just as easy to ask.

I'm lucky I had good mechanical skills and work for an automaton company.

Have access to lots of coaters, machine shops, CAD design is a daily experience.

I also have a good friend who races sleds and has greater skills and most tools

312Icarus
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An oil slinger is a cupped

An oil slinger is a cupped washer (for lack of a better term) that serves as a prehistoric oil filter on /2 engines. There are 2 mounted on the crank, and they take the oil, and via centrifugal force, force the oil into the slingers with the result that the slinger “captures” many of the particulates in the oil. They actually work quite well given the nature of the system. The problem is that you have to take the engin completly apart to clean them. (Take the crank out, use a pick to clean the accumulated debris and reassemble). This is suggested every ~20k miles) In the old days, BMW Service at $5/hour was not a big deal, but nowadays there are few who know how to do it except DIYers.

Any bike that has been sitting, and then is started and run, can cast loose all the debris to lunch the main and rod bearings. The Mains are big roller bearings that are fairly easy to replace, but the rod bearings are not like conventional Babbitt bearings, but roller bearings encapsulated in the big end of the rod. The only way to replace them is to pull the crank apart with very specialized tools, inspect and rebuild the crank and press it back together with proper alignment under thousands of pounds of pressure. (A very big and expensive job...don’t ask me how I know!)

In short, while it is tempting to run the bike, you run a great danger of doing very expensive damage doings so. /2 crank and rod bearings will last 100’s of thousands of miles if properly cared for, but can be lunched in short order with the slingers are not attended to, and if grit get in the rod bearings.

While it is time consuming to do a slinger service, it is not really very hard if you get a good book and an all in one tool to pull the genny, the magneto and the timing gear and case. If you DIY it isn’t expensive except for time. A few tools and a gaskets. Also give you a chance to check the heads, the cam bearings, bores etc.

Hope this helps,

Icarus

schrader7032
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Vech discusses the slingers

Vech discusses the slingers here:

http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/tech/oil.html

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

Gossamer
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thank you

312Icarus wrote:

An oil slinger is a cupped washer (for lack of a better term) that serves as a prehistoric oil filter on /2 engines. There are 2 mounted on the crank, and they take the oil, and via centrifugal force, force the oil into the slingers with the result that the slinger “captures” many of the particulates in the oil. They actually work quite well given the nature of the system. The problem is that you have to take the engin completly apart to clean them. (Take the crank out, use a pick to clean the accumulated debris and reassemble). This is suggested every ~20k miles) In the old days, BMW Service at $5/hour was not a big deal, but nowadays there are few who know how to do it except DIYers.

Any bike that has been sitting, and then is started and run, can cast loose all the debris to lunch the main and rod bearings. The Mains are big roller bearings that are fairly easy to replace, but the rod bearings are not like conventional Babbitt bearings, but roller bearings encapsulated in the big end of the rod. The only way to replace them is to pull the crank apart with very specialized tools, inspect and rebuild the crank and press it back together with proper alignment under thousands of pounds of pressure. (A very big and expensive job...don’t ask me how I know!)

In short, while it is tempting to run the bike, you run a great danger of doing very expensive damage doings so. /2 crank and rod bearings will last 100’s of thousands of miles if properly cared for, but can be lunched in short order with the slingers are not attended to, and if grit get in the rod bearings.

While it is time consuming to do a slinger service, it is not really very hard if you get a good book and an all in one tool to pull the genny, the magneto and the timing gear and case. If you DIY it isn’t expensive except for time. A few tools and a gaskets. Also give you a chance to check the heads, the cam bearings, bores etc.

Hope this helps,

Icarus

Couldn't have had a better explanation.

Ok.so where is the best place.to find a good service manual?

Gossamer
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lots to learn

schrader7032 wrote:

Vech discusses the slingers here:

http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/tech/oil.html

Thank you good reading for me.

Looks like I have lots to learn about these classics

312Icarus
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Barrington Service manual,

Barrington Service manual, not cheap but is the gold standard. I don’t have one, but wish I did. I should order one myself!

http://www.barringtonmotorworks.com/gallery.php?sid=14&gid=97

Icarus

Gossamer
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great read thank you

schrader7032 wrote:

Vech discusses the slingers here:

http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/tech/oil.html

miller6997
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Good explanation but...

I don't recall ever seeing a suggested 20,000-mile service interval for cleaning the slingers. Vech cites a recommendation of 45,000 miles for bikes that have had reasonable service.

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'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

schrader7032
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I would agree with Jon that

I would agree with Jon that the service interval was certainly long and not around 20K. If that were the case, then when the bikes were first out, that would mean a major service every couple of years or so.

I seem to recall Duane Ausherman say on occasion that the slingers typically went for many miles, on the order of 80 to 100K. The reason they could was that the non-detergent oil didn't hold the particulates in suspension and they would routinely settle in the bottom of the pan. A routine sump pan cleaning was then necessary. But with the use of detergent oil, the issue became more of a problem.

I think Vech's suggestion is based upon good maintenance and the general thought is that changing the oil on a more frequent basis will help pull out the bad stuff. Probably, the older the engine that has been maintained well will start to have more blow-by, thus generating more particulates in the oil, thus speeding up the need for a slinger service.

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

312Icarus
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IIRC Vech suggests that the

IIRC Vech suggests that the original service interval was ~50k under “normal” service, but also says that bikes that only run occasionally, are not really “normal” service and are subjected to more crap in the slingers. Bottom line, preventative maintenance is just that. I did mine at 50k and waited too long.

Icarus

miller6997
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They're all different...

On my present R69S the slingers were cleaned for the first time at 57,000 and everything in the engine was fine. My first R69S went 103,000 miles with no slinger service, and it was still running fine when I sold it. Both of these bikes had known histories of faithful maintenance, 1000-mile oil changes, and relatively gentle use. If I were buying a /2 today that did not have those three advantages, I would definitely not gamble.

And a footnote: Both bikes ran on detergent oil from the beginning--Havoline, then Shell, then more recently Castrol multi-grade. A couple of years ago I switched to Valvoline VR-1 (straight 40w) on Vech's recommendation. I used Amsoil for a short interval but soon tired of the religious rituals required to find and buy it. I still use Amsoil in the trans and final drive because they don't require such frequent changing.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

R68
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Like everyone else...

...I congratulate you on your new acquisition; an R69 is a really desirable and fairly seldom seen BMW. It might not be the best BMW to use for your first restoration project? I think it's earlier than '59. Maybe it transition 1957, with later air cleaner but earlier headlamp ears? I think the speedo face is black/white, not black/beige? I wonder if that larger plate underneath the others is a "US Forces in Germany plate"...lucky you, but please do your research before you start to take it apart?

Gossamer
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Will take my time on her

R68 wrote:

...I congratulate you on your new acquisition; an R69 is a really desirable and fairly seldom seen BMW. It might not be the best BMW to use for your first restoration project? I think it's earlier than '59. Maybe it transition 1957, with later air cleaner but earlier headlamp ears? I think the speedo face is black/white, not black/beige? I wonder if that larger plate underneath the others is a "US Forces in Germany plate"...lucky you, but please do your research before you start to take it apart?

Well I' hoping to bring her home the weekend of the 22nd. So at that point i can get a much better assessment of what this is, what it needs, get some much better pics etc.

My Uncle who's truly the owner is in his mid 80's and not in the greatest of health. My Dad is who also 83 and actually still in decent health and sharp is the one who's feeding me model and year. However he told me it's small enough that it would probably fit in the trunk of my car on it's side(LOL). While that may true, she'll be coming home in the back of a pickup.

I also think the back black plate is a US Force Germany plate. I'm curious about all those plates and will frame them in a large frame for a wall hanger since the newest plate is 40 years old.

I WILL be doing lots of research and ask lots of questions here.

My biggest fear is doing something to ruin a part that is either very expensive or irreplaceable.

I'm a little against the clock here because I want to get her road worthy before the next person in this generation passes. I'm thinking big smiles and some really cool photo op if I can get them in front of or even get them to do a few laps around the subdivision on it.

However, new tires, relacing the spokes, brakes, oil, battery, final drive oil, wheel bearings and cable operation are the beginning of a restore as well a lot of chrome polish and cleaning to see what's under all that dirt.

I will keep everyone here posted. It's taken me 6 months just to get it moved from one garage to the owners garage. Now I'll need to get the owner to release it to me so that I can restore it for him.

As stated he's not 100% there and has the hoarder behavior. So things change is his mind from time to time but the last few times I spoke with him and pointed out that 40 years it's sat untouched, with his deteriorating health and age he'll never get it this done. But I'll make every effort to bring it back to it's glory and let him ride it or take him for a ride.

It's a piece of motorcycle history, it's a piece of family history. My son turns 16 on the 20th so I hope I can transition it to him and so on and so on.

Gossamer
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lost ignition key

Ok it appears the chance is very high that the ignition key has long gone AWOL.

What kind of options do I have for those that have been down this route?

312Icarus
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All /2 ignition keys are ALL

All /2 ignition keys are ALL the same. A simple pointed key with a flange on it to turn on the head light. You can simply run a /2 by pushing a nail or a small stick in the ignition switch slot. You won’t have a head light but the engine will run. Or, you can simply undo the brown ground wire on the mag. The switch simply ungrounds the mag. Ignition keys are available from bluemoon or Vech or a number of others.

A fork lock or tank box key is a different matter, can be made with a competent lock smith. I think there is a simple ILCO blank that fits the fork lock. I have never used my fork lock.

Icarus

PS I lost my key while hiking deep up a logging road in the Cascade mountains back in the day. I found a stick to fit the hole, fire the bike up, and drove it 100 miles home. I got stopped by the cops for no headlight, but no ticket when I explained what happened.

miller6997
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About those keys...

Just to add to the previous comment, the Neiman key blanks for the fork and tank locks are usually available on eBay. When I lost my original key, my local locksmith made a new one. Since that took half an hour of tedious work, he charged me sixty dollars or so, but then was able to charge it to my AAA membership.

And a footnote: My local dealer (Irv Seaver) has a huge ring of lost keys, accumulated over more than half a century in business. If you have the patience, you can try every one of them in your fork and if you find a match, it's quick and easy to make a copy. I don't know if other dealers do the same, but it's worth asking.

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'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

schrader7032
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Vech sells ignition keys on

Vech sells ignition keys on his website for less than $20.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

kfelt
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ma
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Gossamer...If you have not

Gossamer...If you have not secured possession of this bike...do it...now! An opportunity not to be missed as others have said. A few pics of my R69. The first is when I got it. The others is how it looks now. Note the totally non stock high handlebars and rotten mufflers among other things. Without a total restoration, replacing a bunch of important parts, touching up painted parts and getting it running to be roadworthy, it was not a great financial burden. Not 100% correct but pretty close. Unbelievable joy to ride, would take anywhere. Just a suggestion but think about doing the minimum. A good cleaning of painted parts will do wonders. The tank, fenders and bags are original paint on mine. I still am amazed whenever I ride it (all the time) how great this bike runs. Good luck and keep the updates coming.

kfelt
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ma
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Sorry, cannot for the life of

Sorry, cannot for the life of me figure out how to post pics on this forum.

bstratton
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pics

Keith,
I haven't been able to post pics since the last server update. Others can but I can't. The only was I can do it is to put the pics out on a hosted site in the cloud like dropbox and then post a link to them.

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1971 R60/5
1965 R50/2 (project)
MA

miller6997
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Try thi8s...

If you use the first tab at the top of the message box (insert/edit image) it will only let you post a link to a picture stored somewhere else. But, if you use the "attach files" option below the message box, you can import a picture from your hard drive, provided it meets the specs spelled out in the instructions.

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

kfelt
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ma
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OK Skip, thanks. miller6997,

OK Skip, thanks.

miller6997, tried the "choose file" below the message box originally and when I choose a pic it says "no file chosen" next to it. I will keep trying.

miller6997
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Click!

Click on "Choose file" and it should open your directory so that you can select the picture(s) you want to upload. Works for me. Here's my selfie:

  • kali_march_1_2014.jpg
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'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

schrader7032
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I don't see "Choose file"

I don't see "Choose file" below the message box. I click on the "Browse" button to open up a standard Windows search box to find the image that I want to upload.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

wa1nca
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Ashfield Ma.
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My Selfie

miller6997 wrote:

Click on "Choose file" and it should open your directory so that you can select the picture(s) you want to upload. Works for me. Here's my selfie:

Nice shot of you
Here's my selfie

Tommy

  • dsc02148.jpg
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54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

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That's odd..

On my browser (Chrome), there is a black-bordered box just below the text-entry box that's labeled "attach files to this comment," and inside that box there is an option labeled "Choose File." Alongside that option, to the right, there is a "no file chosen" tag, which I just ignore.

[I just checked, and I see that on Firefox the option is "Browse" (as Kurt noted), rather than "Choose File."]

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Jon Miller
'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

kfelt
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Another try

Another try

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R69

miller6997 wrote:

Click on "Choose file" and it should open your directory so that you can select the picture(s) you want to upload. Works for me. Here's my selfie:

Does not work for me. Have no problem on other vintage bike forums adding pics.

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kfelt - What OS, what

kfelt -

What OS, what browser?

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

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I've been working at this for 6 months

Haven't gotten it yet because I'm having to rely on other people to dig it out of the hell hole of their back garage where the pictures were taken 20 miles to my Uncles' house where I drive 120 miles each way to retrieve it.

I've been trying to attain it for better part of 2 decades.

However, after the recent passing(6 months) of an Uncle(the garage where it currently is) it came up. My remaining Aunt and my Dad have convinced my Uncle(the current owner,childless) to release it to me, allow me to use my skills to restore it.

But the two boys(cousins) who have to haul it aren't exactly what you'd call stellar members of society. My Aunt(where bike is currently) will not allow me to pickup directly from her house(family feud for decades).

This is cribnote version of the background stuff.

However I'm committed and dedicated to getting it and hopefully restoring it, framing the license plates and presenting the bike to original owner(yes he's owned this bike since brand new) and is 84 and in poor health and my Dad who's 82, get some great family photos to mix in with the early photos etc.

It'a passion not an investment and hoping it's something to hand down to my son who turned 16th just this last Thursday as a family heirloom/historical piece. I'd be happy to just be able to get the license plates stacked up and frame them and present them.

Oh well, I'm trying.

I'm also sending you a private message, I'd love to see the pictures so you can email me directly.

I absolutely plan to share many pictures of her restoration, ask hundreds of questions for advice and technical information and ultimately to restore her to a roadworthy, if not near showroom condition. I'm 49 myself, so I'm no spring chicken either, but I feel like I'm under the gun to get this done ASAP before another one of my Dad's generation passes.

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If you are talking to me

If you are talking to me Gossamer, I would be happy to send you pics. Keith

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schrader7032 wrote:

kfelt -

What OS, what browser?

Schrader, sorry, what is OS? I just click the "Choose File" box under where it says "attach files to this comment". My photos on my computer are then displayed and I pick one or more. Looks like it is uploading but then nothing. Jeez, should be easy...

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Sorry...shorthand for

Sorry...shorthand for Operating System. Are you Windows or Mac? You said above:

Quote:

I just click the "Choose File" box under where it says "attach files to this comment".

So, I'm running Windows 10 with the Edge browser. I do have the box that has at the top "Attach files to this comment". But no where in that box does it says "Choose File". I do have the box that says "Browse...". Clicking that opens the standard screen in Windows which lets me browse my local computer to find the picture that I want to attach.

I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes in front of your computer. I'm not the best IT person in the world, but for all I know, I see no reason why one person can upload pictures but another person can't.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

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Thanks for trying to help

Thanks for trying to help schrader. I have Windows. I have a "Choose File" box to click on to display all my pictures on my computer. I agree, I do not see why one person (or many) can upload pics and some can't. I guess I am just computer addled.

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