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yoderjo
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My 67 R60/2 is showing high voltage, ~10vdc, at the battery at revs above idle. Background...a while back the gen light starting coming on at high revs. i replaced the brushes and a local shop cleaned up the commutator (more on this below). seemed to solve the issue then the gen light started coming on at lower speeds. after some checks on charging system per the Doug Rinckes paper i decided to replace the original VR with an electronic VR. again seemed to fix the problem (maybe five mile ride) but next time out all the lights blew out (except for gen light). i checked the voltage at the battery and found about 10v. checked installation of new VR connections, all per instructions. while it seemed a long shot that the new electronic VR was a dud, Vech graciously offered to provide a second one at cost. didn't fix the issue, still high voltage at battery. voltage across the battery is 6v at idle.

Any ideas? could this be a problem in the stator field coils or in the armature? i believe the guy that checked out the armature only polished the commutator and did not turn it. the insulator sections are still below the contact surface.

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Daves79x
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Your Regulator

Your voltage regulator is either mis-wired, mis-adjusted, or just plain faulty. Since another one did the same thing, I'd be checking my wiring over very closely.

Dave

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wa1nca
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Ashfield Ma.
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EVR

Is this what you have?

  • r69s_electronic_regulator_004.jpg
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54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

yoderjo
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Harrisonburg, VA
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EVR

I don't have the instructions with me but....the installation is similar to that shown. four wire connection: yellow wire to field winding yellow wire originally connected to old VR, blue wire attached to 61 (positive brush), red attached to a 51\30 post, and brown wire grounded under an EVR mounting screw. The old resistor was removed per installation instructions.

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wa1nca
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Charging problem

Did you resolve your charging problem
What kind of voltage regulator are you using with the colored wires SPI ?

Tommy

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yoderjo
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Harrisonburg, VA
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Charging problem not resolved

Tommy, attached are photos of the electronic voltage regulator (eVR) and wiring. Four wires from VR: Brown is ground wire not shown in photo, it is grounded under screw attaching eVR to generator bracket. Blue wire to 61 (D+), red to 30/51, yellow to field winding. Wired per instructions that came with the eVR.
I haven't got back to this issue since last fall. I'm scratching my head at this point; not sure what else to check. I've bought a new wiring harness and will probably install the harness next to ensure there are no continuity issues. I noticed in the headlamp bucket that the plastic insulation was breaking down on some exposed wiring.
Does anything stick out to you as to cause of high charging voltage at the battery, ~10v? should be no more than 7.2v or so.

Thanks,
Jon

  • voltage_reg_id.jpg
  • voltage_reg_wiring.jpg
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yoderjo
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clarifying...

By exposed wires in the headlamp bucket I mean wiring that is exposed beyond the wiring harness sheath. These "exposed" wires still have the plastic insulation but it is cracking. this is the original wiring harness. the bike is mostly original in re to electrical system...exceptions include the ignition coil, spark plug wires, and of course the VR. I still have the original mechanical VR in case it ends up that was not the root cause of charging issue.....

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oligee7275
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VR

Jon,
Having read through this thread a couple of times to be sure of the issue you are having I noticed something that you hadn't mentioned.
In the post above from Tommy that has a VR diagram it shows that VR is self initiating even with a discharged battery.
The VR you are using needs to be manually initiated per, the instructions, by momentarily contacting a wire from the battery positive to the positive brush (61). The battery should be fully charged when this is performed.
Since I am coming late to this discussion I only offer this as another thought.
I would also make sure you have very good ground connections that effect the VR.
Many eVRs are shunt type regulators that "shunt" voltage to ground as a way of regulating overcharging.
I don't know that the VR you are using is a shunt type. Those typically have cooling fins as they can get quite warm.
It may just short the field winding to prevent overcharging like the original mechanical type does.
Just thinking out loud here.
Hope it's helpful,
Dean

yoderjo
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Harrisonburg, VA
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polarized VR

Dean, I appreciate the input. I have polarized (?) the VR per instructions. Not certain the battery was at "full" charge but enough juice was there to create a spark when contact was made. I've also checked the VR ground wire with test light to ensure continuity to ground. Having said this i intend to perform both actions again as a sanity check. the answer will undoubtedly be in a small detail missed or incorrect assumption on my part.
Jon

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oligee7275
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Jon, You've got a tough one

Jon,
You've got a tough one there.
Low voltage is usually the problem and easily diagnosed.
Not too many things will cause high voltage.
I'm wondering if maybe you have an issue with the field windings in the generator.
The original regulator would short to the field windings if the voltage is too high.
One would assume that the eVR would do the same.
There could be a problem between the regulator and the field windings or the windings themselves.
It's apparently not the eVR as you have tried two at this point, and the wiring looks good.
I can't come up with any testing procedures for checking the field windings at home.
Probably would need a alternator or generator shop to diagnose.
Running out of ideas.
Another thought. When you rev the engine while checking the voltage at the battery does the voltage stop at 10 and go no higher or is 10 volts where you stopped checking? What I mean is, would the voltage go higher if you revved the engine higher?
Good luck with it and let us know if you conquer it.
Dean

Daves79x
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Have You

Have you by chance verified that your voltmeter is accurate? A couple of volts off at say, 120v is no big deal, but at 10v it sure is. In my career I've seen several big mistakes made all because the tech's voltmeter was inaccurate.

Dave

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wa1nca
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Max output

The readings would seem accurate as Yodejo stated that it did blow out all his lights

I would retry the original voltage regulator as you noted that it had a low output problem and not a high output issue

Tommy

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54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

yoderjo
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Harrisonburg, VA
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original VR & field windings

Thanks for the comments guys. it wouldn't take much to revert to original VR (if this keeps up quick disconnects might be in order) and if still showing high output than have field windings checked. or check the windings first. Seems i read somewhere of a check on the windings, maybe a resistance measurement to check for shorting? seems shorting would result in lower output tho.... I'll check with the local alternator/gen shops. As to voltmeter it shows 6 volts on the battery alone so would appear to be relatively accurate. Dean, I believe i dropped the rpms back once i saw it rise to 10v. and i tested a few times since i couldn't believe it was that high. the lights all blowing in fairly short order was a good indication something was rotten.

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wa1nca
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Field windings

Yes if the field windings were open or shorted or if the armature has a problem you would have low output but most likely no output

The resistance of the field windings (between 61 D+ and F) should be about 2.5 to 4 Ohms

I still think you should try your old regulator

Tommy

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yoderjo
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Harrisonburg, VA
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no updates yet...

haven't had a chance to get back to the bike. will follow up

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wa1nca
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High output

yoderjo wrote:

haven't had a chance to get back to the bike. will follow up

Yea I would like to know if it is indeed the regulator

Tommy

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johnpst
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Hawaii
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HIGH OUTPUT IS A FUNCTION OF HIGH FIELD VOLTAGE.

Aloha,

Generators work by relative motion and electromagnetic induction. There is a field voltage input of a given value which results in a stationary magnetic field. The relative motion of the generator armature passes the magnetic field and cutting the lines of magnetic flux resulting in power (voltage and current) at the brushes which is transmitted to the system and battery. The voltage regulator is the arbiter that holds voltage under control (preferably around 7 - 7.4Vdc (check with your battery manufacturer) by controlling the field current (mechanical or electronic),

So, first, you need a magnetic field. High generator output (and blown components) = magnetic field present.

Second, to generate voltage and current, you need relative motion (engine running) through that magnetic field. Again, high voltage = generator working.

Ok, we're done generating the electricity, now we need to control it. High voltage = not under control.

At some point either you are leaking current into the field coil through miswiring, short, or your VR is not able to control field current. Note the ONLY points that the field are terminated. Make sure nothing else is touching the field wires and make sure the VR is properly grounded to the chassis AND that your engine ground is properly tied to the negative terminal on the battery.

Your stated symptom is high voltage output. The only way to get that is your field current is not being controlled properly or, you've installed the wrong generator on your engine.

Hope this helps.

John

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55 - R50, 06-R1200RT, 96-M900, 10-TU250x

wa1nca
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Ashfield Ma.
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High output

Have you repaired your charging problem

Tommy

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54 R51/3 55 R50 64 R27 68 R69US 68 Sears Allstate 250 (Puch)

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