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Twocams
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VBMWMO #8750
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Thinking of getting a deep oil pan for my R69S. (aftermarket) Are there any real advantages..or disadvantages? I know more oil could be more cooling.

thanks for some input

twocams

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Twocams
69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
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I've heard (but don't really

I've heard (but don't really know for sure) that there's little advantage to cooling, although it will take a bit longer for some oil to circulate which could equate to cooling...but how much cooler is it going to get in a few seconds extra sitting in the sump?

The choices you have to make are 1) use the same amount of oil in the sump resulting in more air volume; 2) fill the oil to the same height on the dipstick, thus getting more oil) or; 3) something in between.

To me the greatest advantage is 1). As those pistons move towards bottom dead center, they push a lot of air which can create extra pressure on seals and can also whip up the oil into a mist which is routed out of the engine. Which the cooling effect being questionable, I'd opt for 3) which gets you a little of both.

Be sure your oil pickup is moved down appropriately, especially if going for 1). Make sure it's tight and won't come loose...if it sucks air, you're in danger of severe engine damage.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

Hugh Conway
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Deep oil pan pro/con

@Twocams

The purpose of a deeper than standard oil pan is to increase oil capacity and to increase cooling capacity.

Recall that engine oil has 3 purposes: lubricate, cool, and clean the internal engine parts.

A deeper pan should be used with a larger quantity of oil in the engine: This may be useful in long, high speed runs, so that normal oil consumption does not result in destructive depletion of oil quantity.....though that will still happen if you run our of oil!!
In short, one has more reserve capacity.

A deeper pan used with a larger oil quantity will result in cooler oil temperatures. One reason is the increased surface area of the oil pan itself being exposed to outside air flow........a radiator effect similar but in lesser extent to an oil cooler. Another reason is that the oil not actually in circulation is removed from the hotter engine parts (say underside of piston and cylinder walls) for a longer period of time, giving the oil a longer period of cooling time.

As for cleaning, the additional volume of oil further dilutes the impurities caused by wear and combustion.

Pro.....larger oil reserve, additional cooling, better cleaning. Keep in mind that these requirements are adequately provided for in the original design and operating within the original design parameters

On the Con side:
The engine is designed for a particular set of operating parameters, If a deeper pan is used, the oil may be cooled below its optimal operating temperature.

More oil is necessary for oil changes.

In summary, a deeper pan used with increased oil quantity is probably not necessary in normal use. Riding long distances or in very hot climates changes the equation.

And yes, in using a deeper pan, the oil pick-up should be relocated deeper to gain benefit of the change.

Cheers,
Hugh

P.S. A deeper pan used with the original smaller oil quantity would result in lower crankcase pumping pressures, as while air displaced by the pistons remains the same, the crankcase internal volume is effectively increased. This is not so, however, if the
oil quantity is increased to the original level on the dipstick.

Twocams
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VBMWMO #8750
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The pan Im looking at is 2.5L

The pan Im looking at is 2.5L which is 2.64 quarts. The stock pan is 2 quarts so that's just over 1/2 qt. more. Just trying to justify the $200 I will spend for one. May just buy one cause I can.

twocams

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69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

Hugh Conway
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Best excuse ever

@Twocams........I like your reasoning!
They do look cool, and that is reason enough. The only harm will perhaps be to your wallet.
I believe 1/2 quart extra will not make a whole lot of difference in the other areas.
On that basis, Go for it!

Cheers,
Hugh

Twocams
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VBMWMO #8750
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OK thats twice today I have

OK thats twice today I have heard about they look, kool factor. I just got a $199.1 (check) mileage reimbursement from VA. For using my POV to go to the VA hospital in Portland, Or. That should cover the cost of my new pan.

twocams

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69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

312Icarus
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For my money, I don't thing

For my money, I don't thing the extra~1/2 liter is going to make a measurable difference in oil temps. To me it would not be worth the headache.

Icarus

Slash2
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Deep Sump

I had one stuck on my /2 during a rebuild at Betjemann's a few years back. I never liked the look of it and I still don't. It makes oil changes a pain in the butt and while I base this assertion on nothing but logic, I find it difficult to believe the benefit is worth the effort. Some day I'll switch back to the original pan which looks about 100x better IMO.

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64' R60/2 - 66' R27 - 51' R67 - 68' R69S
88' R100RS - 06' K12R

Twocams
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Now Im hearing pain in the

Now Im hearing pain in the butt to change oil. Not worth the effort. What makes the deeper pan a problem like these? I want one but not with problems attached.

twocams

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69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
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Do you have a picture of the

Do you have a picture of the oil pan you're thinking of buying?

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

Twocams
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I just bought one. Hard to

I just bought one. Hard to tell just from pictures if I want it or not for sure. So Ill just take a good look at it and see to keep or not to keep. Sold by spike_buck on ebay. I have bought several things from him over the last 3 yrs and fast shipping. Still takes 5-7 days to get to West coast.

twocams

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69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

miller6997
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Please explain!

How does the larger pan make oil changes more difficult? My '67 has had the extra-capacity pan since new, and I can change the oil in five minutes, start to finish.

My brother (the first owner) installed the pan originally because he rode a lot in the deserts of California, Arizona, and Mexico. I have no way of knowing whether there is any real measurable benefit, but the bike is entering its fiftieth year and still going strong.

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'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

Slash2
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My $.02

miller6997 wrote:

How does the larger pan make oil changes more difficult? My '67 has had the extra-capacity pan since new, and I can change the oil in five minutes, start to finish.

It isn't so much the pan that makes the problem, it's the odd capacity. That stock pan calls for a nice even 2 quarts, while the deep sump falls somewhere around 2.65 if memory serves. So preparing that quantity requires one to measure it out adding a step to the process as opposed to simply dumping two quarts in and being done with it. Once you accurately determine the exact volume, you could simply buy an appropriate measuring device and simply prepare the appropriate amount.

I order as per Vech's recommendation, Valvoline VR 1 Racing oil and it comes in 6 quart cases. With the standard pan, this case will do three changes, but you can only do 2 with an odd amount of oil leftover on the deep sump.

While I wouldn't say that dealing with any of this is technically "difficult," it's inconvenient to say the least and without any real proof that this feature truly adds a tangible benefit, I'd rather stick with the standard pan.

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64' R60/2 - 66' R27 - 51' R67 - 68' R69S
88' R100RS - 06' K12R

olebmw
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If its made of aluminium it

If its made of aluminium it should seal against the engine case better than the steel pan and not weep oil over time...I think.

miller6997
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Different strokes...

I can understand staying with stock if there is in fact no added benefit with the larger pan, but inconvenience? The larger pan holds very close to 2.5 liters. I have a one-liter plastic container that I fill two and a half times and pour it through the funnel into the engine. Not too taxing. Of course, I usually have a partial quart sitting on the shelf between changes, but I've learned to tolerate that. ;^}

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'67 R69S
'13 F800GT

Twocams
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VBMWMO #8750
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Got my new deep pan today. So

Got my new deep pan today. So went out to my new shop where I replaced the pan. And as luck would have it, got a drip of oil on my new concrete floor. Well it's broke in now. Not hard to do except the new thick paper gasket was a pain to line the last 2 bolts up. Think Ill use cork next time I have to replace it. I didnt let it run to long but while the heads were to hot to keep my hand on. The pan was barely warm.

Got my insulation up,A/C hooked up & new cost me nothing ceiling fan. Hey it's just a shop.

twocams

  • new_deep_oil_pan_r69s_010.jpg
  • new_deep_oil_pan_r69s_007.jpg
  • new_deep_oil_pan_r69s_001.jpg
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Twocams
69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

VintageSalesand...
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VBMWMO #7368
Corona, CA
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Oil pan

Hi,

This may be a bit late, but make sure you put sealant on all the threads of the bolts that hold the pan on.

It will seep if you don't.

Jeff

robgernstetter
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VBMWMO #9177
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oil pan

There are different quality large oil pans out there...some are not so good...can't remember which one I ended up using...and you need to tighten the bolts after you run the bike the first time...not sure a cork seal is the way to go with aluminum on the case and pan.

Goomicoo
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Studio City Ca.
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I use silicon gaskets for the

I use silicon gaskets for the pan and the valve covers. Easy Peasy.

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'64 R69s
'66 R60
'67 R69s
'68 R50

sorbo1
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VBMWMO #8725
Sydney , Australia
Joined: 05/16/2014
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Deep Sump

I have a 1961 R69s , I live in Australia . I have fitted a deep sump bought from Germany . Certainly no problems . I have lock wired the oil pickup extension and have magnetic drain plugs throught the bike . No problems but I check the allen screws that hold the sump in . The thread on the sump was a loose fit with the magnetic drain plug so i have wired in in also .

Littlemicrocars
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VBMWMO #9343
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alloy pan

great advantages.... takes the heat out of the oil better than a steel pan.. You can throw magnets in thru the drain plug hole ... Much better to be on the bottom of the pan...where all the smegma is. and this will trap metal before it gets to the slingers on early engines. 5 or 6 magnets work better than one...LEO

Twocams
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VBMWMO #8750
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I didnt reuse my magnets in

I didnt reuse my magnets in my aluminum pan. They wont stick, but they could stick to the oil screen inlet. IF one hit a bump to hard and they got close enough to the pickup screen who knows what. I do have the drain plug magnet tho.

twocams

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Twocams
69 R69S 03 K1200GT
92 R100RT

schrader7032
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San Antonio, TX
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IIRC Vech says he glues the

IIRC Vech says he glues the magnets to the bottom of the aluminum pans.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

stagewex
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Another lower body (motor)

Another lower body (motor) part that reduces road clearance IMO.
Trying not to be the cranky old man but they would have come with a larger sump capacity if it was really needed.
Over on the Ural site some folks install the deeper sumps. Primitive Splash-bath. Alway a debate if needed or really does anything other than just make the owner feel better. Of course the skid-plates do not fit anymore and off-roading is a no-no.
Doubt anyone is hitting dirt roads with any /2's, at least on this site.

Many years ago I had a '72 Mercedes that a previous owner had installed a deeper sump on. One of those Diesel "Beirut Cabs" that run 300,000+ miles. Hit a small but frozen chunk of snow/ice that fell off the wheel-well of a car in front of me.
What a mess, instant oil change.

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mike wex/stagewex
1969 BMW r60/2, US Model, 1995 BMW K75, 2006 Yamaha TW200, 2007 Ural Patrol

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