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rusty sprocket
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I got my r60/2 running today. It ran really good however after letting it sit for an hour it would NOT fire over. I pulled the plugs and they look a little lean but they are bone dry. I am not getting gas into the cylinder. I used the "ticklers" I opened the throttle several times and I cannot get fuel to the spark plug which is why its not firing over I assume. any ideas? thanks

rusty sprocket
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spark plug

oh and I am using a NGK B7HS It a little hotter plug could that be part of the problem?

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Carburetor

Check that you have enough fuel in the tank. Turn the petcock to the reserve position. Pull off the fuel line at the carb. Check and see if there is fuel in the bowl. If fuel is in the bowl then you will have to take it apart.

rusty sprocket
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won't start

what weird is that The carb is soaked with fuel and even dripping a bit I assume because I used the tickler a bit too much. however the plugs are dry??

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What coil do you have? Is it

What coil do you have? Is it the original or the new emerald isle one? All hot start problems with my /2 has always been
1. failing coil,original ones.
2. flooding carb
3. Not enough fuel since I am afraid of flooding carbs!!!
Try closing up the spark plug gap to 16 thou or a little less. If it starts after,then you may have a weak coil. Also timing has to be SPOT ON! This helps with starting.

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rusty sprocket
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so I took the carbs off still

so I took the carbs off still attached to the throttle. When I twist the throttle grip absolutely no fuel coming through the carb. How is this so?? clogged jet? spark plugs are dry as a bone. how did it run before?? im perplexed

schrader7032
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Twisting the throttle doesn't

Twisting the throttle doesn't cause fuel to flow...there are no accelerator pumps on these carbs. Only air flow through the venturi will raise fuel from the bowl into the air stream for atomization.

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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carbs

so how do I increase fuel into the cylinder? I have the air mixture screw 2 turns out

schrader7032
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What's the level of fuel in

What's the level of fuel in the float bowl? Carefully, remove the top of the carb...where is the fuel level

Can you describe your start routine?

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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I will check the level but I

I will check the level but I usually tickle the carbs a few times and then twist the throttle s few times and kick

schrader7032
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Twisting the throttle really

Twisting the throttle really does little...remember no accelerator pump. Tickle (hold the button down for a count of 3 or 4), hand off the throttle, kick maybe 4-5 times. Then key on, maybe about 1/4 throttle...maybe try it with no throttle, find the beginning of the compression stroke, then give it a good kick.

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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tickle

I'm just tapping the tickle button not holding it in for 3 or 4 sec. maybe that's the problem??

Darryl.Richman
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The ticklers just push the

The ticklers just push the float down in the float bowl. Just pushing them and releasing them only lets a little bit of fuel in. It's the cumulative time they are held down that matters.

You could also have a plugged jet. If your tank liner is flaking off, the finest particles can go through the mesh cover over the petcock intake tubes (or maybe you don't have a wire mesh prophylactic over the tubes, and bigger flakes can get through).

Testing the spark is easy, of course. Pull the plug, plug it back in to the plug lead, then lay it on the cylinder fin and kick the bike over with the key in. You should see a blue spark. Yellow means your spark is weak and may not fire under pressure in the cylinder. Since both cylinders aren't firing, look at the points and condenser first.

A long shot is that you didn't tighten the valve adjusters enough and in the previous run they loosened and backed off. Kickstarting needs the best configuration of all the systems to work.

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rusty sprocket
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thank you. I also forgot to

thank you. I also forgot to note that I have fuel leaking from the air adjustment screw when I tickle the floats. The nuts are tight on the air adjustment screws. I am going to inspect the jets for clogging.

rusty sprocket
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update

well this morning I went out and took the carbs off, cleaned them again, and installed new B8HS plugs. It fired up on first kick. Now I will let it sit for a while and try again. It seems like I may have had some thing maybe clogged in the jet. I checked the fuel and It is clean coming out of the fuel line.

Question #2 Was there ever a kill switch on the r60/2 or do you use the key on the headlight to turn it off? Excuse my ignorance this is my first BMW Smile

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No kill switch...supposed to

No kill switch...supposed to just remove the key. However, I've heard it mentioned that by whacking the throttle open while at idle, you'll immediately starve the engine and it will die. Never tried it before, though.

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Search and read through the

Search and read through the starting procedure posts here. Different bikes like different procedures. I think you may have flooded your spark plugs and they no longer would fire right. Vech once told me once they flood they will never again fire right even when dry. Try not touching the ticklers at all. Just ignition on, gas on and wait 30 seconds then kick. And I think you were right to get the right heat range in your plugs.

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Oh and for a hot start kick

Oh and for a hot start kick it with the gas off then once it starts turn the gas on. But there are some good posts that go through this.

rusty sprocket
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I have not heard anyone

I have not heard anyone mention the air canister open or closed in the starting procedure. I have been closing it for cold starts. It seems like the bike is starting better. I let it set for an hour and tried to start it with no tickle it didn't like that so I pushed the carb tickle button a couple times and it tried to start. I had to open the throttle for it to start up but it ran and idled well.

rusty sprocket
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even on a hot start I need to

even on a hot start I need to twist the throttle repeatedly for it to start. When I pull the plugs they are VERY DRY. I would assume If I am flooding it the plugs would be wet. I am just perplexed as to why there isn't any fuel getting into to the cylinder. Once I get it running it runs great, but this start up thing is frustrating

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I wonder if what people mean

I wonder if what people mean by flooding is not that there is liquid gasoline running around but that the mixture is far too rich to light off. I know my R69S is easily "flooded" when trying to start after say a gas stop...the engine is hot. In order to combat this, I know to turn off the petcock within a block or so of the gas station. After the fill up, I leave the petcock off, open the throttle to full open and hold it, then kick the engine over about 5-6 times. This servers to pull all those excess fumes out of the combustion chamber...not dripping wet, just too rich. Then I leave the throttle completely closed, ignition on, and then start the bike. It usually barely rumbles to life and I begin to coax it with small openings of the throttle in order to get more air. Once running well, I open the petcock.

So, flooding is not absolutely wet in my mind, but really just too rich.

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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I am so use to old cars that

I am so use to old cars that to me rich means dark black spark plugs, lean means white spark plugs, and flooded means the spark plug is soaking wet. Maybe I am just misunderstanding the terminology. My plugs are dry and whitish which would tell me its lean? I appreciate all the help I'm getting closer to cracking this mystery lol

rusty sprocket
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so do most people shut the

so do most people shut the pet cock off even if stopping for an hour or two then starting up again? I'm just asking because with my other bikes I usually only shut the gas off If I am storing over night or longer

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You should always get in the

You should always get in the habit of shutting off the petcock...I tend to even shut them off when I stop for a gas fill. The idea is that you shouldn't rely on the float and needle to shut fuel flow off. If for some reason fuel still flows, what doesn't spill on the ground could overflow into the head and through an open intake valve. Now there's the possibility of a fluid lock the first time that piston comes up...a hydraulic lock will bend a rod. Highly unlikely, but a nasty result. A lesser problem is fuel watering down your oil.

Another reason to do it on the /2s is that the carbs are closer to the hot head and the heat will cause the fuel to expand, thus creating more of a hard start situation.

I think it's a good habit to get into.

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rusty sprocket
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after another bout with non

after another bout with non starting ,I took one of the carbs off and the barrel of the carb is absolutely dry! There is no way the fuel is getting delivered. Dry plugs, dry intake. It did almost start a couple times when I would twist the throttle about 15 times but would quickly die. I have good fuel flow from tank. If I twist on the throttle shouldn't the barrel of the intake side of carb be moist with fuel??

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As stated earlier, there is

As stated earlier, there is no fuel pump. The throttle is directly connected to the slide...all the throttle does is move the slide up and down. The only way fuel gets into the engine is by air rushing down the throat of the carb. It's called the Bernoulli principle. As the air rushes past the open end at the top of the jet stack, it sucks fuel up. Put a straw in a glass of water and blow directly across the top of the open end of the straw.

You say fuel flows...how did you determine that?

- remove the hose going into the top of the carb, turn on the petcock...fuel should flow into a catch jar
- is the float sticking inside the carb? If the carb doesn't drop down, then the needle valve won't drop away from the seat.
- is the needle valve sticking in the seat?
- is your gas tank/cap not venting? If air can't get into the tank as fuel escapes, eventually no fuel will flow

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'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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I am finding that it likes to

I am finding that it likes to have the throttle held open when starting. Also I am assuming that is a choke? on the air canister? It doesn't seem to do anything

I thought about the venting issue or the float sticking but what I don't understand is that once its running it runs fine and does not run out of fuel.

thanks!

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Yes, it will need air...too

Yes, it will need air...too little and it might not start because the mixture will be too rich or there's not enough air to flow to pull the fuel into the throat. Too much and there mixture will be too lean...too much air and not enough fuel...plus at slow speeds, opening the throttle wide open slows the speed of air through the carb throat. The piston is a "sucking machine"...it will such air as it travels to bottom dead center. If the throttle slide is wide open, then the air the piston is asking for comes through a big opening and it only travels so fast. Close that opening down, like you're just cracking the throttle, and the same amount of air has to get to the engine but it has to come through a smaller opening. To do that, the air has to go much faster through that opening...faster air will pull fuel up.

The ticklers are the choke. I'm not sure what kind of air filter canister you have...do you have the lever on the backside? I think this is used in rare situations...maybe when it's really cold out. Normal starting, I think you should leave it wide open.

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rusty sprocket
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I really appreciate your

I really appreciate your help! I am getting closer. for starters I had the air canister closed. so I opened it. I also am learning to not over use the tickle primer. I still need the throttle open a bit. IT is very true that each bike has a temperament of its own! haha

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Rusty, didn't you say above

Rusty, didn't you say above that you have the idle fuel mixture screws all the way in? That will prevent any fuel coming in through the idle circuit. The only fuel you'll get is whatever goes through the main jet, but as Kurt mentioned above, that only works when there is significant air flowing through the carb throat -- and that doesn't happen when you're kickstarting it.

I think the starting position for the idle mixture screws is 1.5 turns out from being *lightly* seated. Do not tighten the screws hard against the seat, because it will ruin the seat, which is made of pot metal.

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Darryl I have the screws

Darryl I have the screws about 2 turns out from lightly seated. I have the set screws tight because they were not tightened in the beginning and fuel was coming through them.

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You said way back in an

You said way back in an earlier post that you took off the carbs and cleaned them. And then how it ran better & started on the first kick. How bad were they? You didn't say anything about checking and cleaning your petcock screen and/or draining to see if you needed a flushing of the tank.

On another bike I did what you did but didn't go to the source... the fuel tank. So had to do it all again.

When I bought my r60/2 last October it had only been ridden a bit more than 1000 miles in 5 years. That's barely 3 full tanks of gas so a bunch of fuel had gone bad, especially sitting in the bottom of the tank. Might be worth checking?

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thanks for the tip stagewex.

thanks for the tip stagewex. The tank had been emptied removed and cleaned. It has a brand new petcock and screen. I took the fuel lines off the carbs and ran fuel through them into a clear jar. The fuel was very clean. When I cleaned the carbs the appeared clean but still I could have had a microscopic piece of dirt or something in the jet. OR maybe I had flooded the carb and cleaning them fixed that. I just can't believe I am flooding it because there is no fuel getting into the combustion chamber. The plugs are dry and the intake barrel of the carb is dry. I am mixing up my start up routine a bit to see what works best

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For what its worth here's my start-up

Hmm, as for start-up this is not my first kick-start bike. However this is my first kick-start only bike so it has taken me awhile to find the start-up that this bike likes. The manual says 3 squirts of the ticklers and then it will start. That always flooded the float chambers. Previous owner did nothing but kick start. That usually worked but just after 20 to 30 kicks, my aching leg.

I turn the motor (kickstarter) once with no ignition. Habit from my Ural potential hydro-lock days. Then turn on petcock. I have clear in-line fuel filters on both sides so I can "see" the fuel flowing. Then two (2) quick depressions on each tickler, one full turn all the way on the throttle and then another to 1/4 where I leave it. It starts on the 1st kick 90% of the time now and if not always on the 2nd. If I do anything different than above then it is a chore. Anyway, that's how it worked for me. Took a long time for me to figure her out.

I should add that I always turn the petcock off and let her run for a couple minutes prior to shutting her down. And always park her on th center-stand. On the side stand if there is gas in the carbs she tends to drip a tiny bit. The carbs do not leak... they are "atmospheric". HaHa.

Even after cleaning my carbs and jets in an ultrasonic cleaner I still had years of tiny debris in the jets. I do not have a pin-gauge set so just bit the bullet and ordered a full carb rebuild kit. Made all the difference. The owners manual says if you have to clear a jet you can "use a piece of straw from a broom". Ha.

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schrader7032
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Just to reiterate...the

Just to reiterate...the ticklers don't "squirt". They only push down the float which releases the needle valve which lets the gas start to flow. The shorter you hold the tickler down, like less than a 1/4 of a second, the less gas you get into the float chamber. The usual method is to hold the tickler down for counts, like 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, etc.

And turning the throttle when the engine is stopped does virtually nothing to distribute gas for starting. There are no accelerator pumps in these carbs. Cracking and holding the throttle open at start is likely required in order to let air flow. The slide essentially blocks the air inlet to the carb. Holding it open allows a bit more air to flow to mix with the gas.

But whatever works, keep doing it. Just be aware of the actual functions of the controls for the carb.

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stagewex
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I hear ya. If I add and

I hear ya. If I add and portion of a "Mississippi" to my count I'm flooded/screwed. As far as the throttle doing nothing when it's off if I don't turn it once fully and then leave it at 1/4 is will not start right away. Must be doing something more than encouraging my right leg to wear out before it's time.
I'll try just the 1/4 this morning before going for a ride. After a cold start I don't usually have to do any of this again during a riding day.
These bikes all seem to train their owners as to what they want or don't want. Reminds me of my teenage daughter.

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Where do you live ?

If you would put your town in the post, possibly someone near you could help....sometimes it just takes someone going over starting procedures and looking at your rig to help you access what is a motor problem and what is normal with early BMW motors.... if you are not close to anyone that can help you might find it good to buy the Barrington book ....that is a bible for the bikes...will save you countless hours of frustration... I have been riding and working on BMW bikes most of my life and I still go to that book for information...

Plus it is frustrating to have a bike that is fighting you... they do like to run, just sometimes if they are not adjusted properly they can be worse than a step child... or so I have been told...

Let us know where you are so we can help..... none of us mind, our community is so small we all are friends...

Joel Rapose
Chester Ca.

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I understand on the more than

I understand on the more than the usual "Mississippis". As I said, my R69S is a bit touchy when hot. If for some reason you find yourself in that situation where you held it too long, then I strongly suggest you do what I do. Hold the throttle wide open and kick a half a dozen times. This serves to pull fresh air through the engine and reduces the richness/flooded situation. Then either with no throttle or back to your 1/4 throttle opening, try to start. My guess is that will help.

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thanks for the tip! I think

thanks for the tip! I think you are on to something because it only likes to start if I have the throttle wide open or wide open then I close the throttle and it starts first kick after closing throttle

Vin
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I don't want to send you off

I don't want to send you off on another path necessarily buti wonder of your magneto is aligned properly and if your ignition timing is right. Two other things to check. Properly sorted your bike should come to life much easier.

rusty sprocket
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I purchased the bike a couple

I purchased the bike a couple moths ago from the original owner. It has been sitting for 27 years. He said it was running great when he parked it but then again I have heard that before haha. In all honesty it runs great its just that it is really hard starting.

rusty sprocket
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location

jrapose wrote:

If you would put your town in the post, possibly someone near you could help....sometimes it just takes someone going over starting procedures and looking at your rig to help you access what is a motor problem and what is normal with early BMW motors.... if you are not close to anyone that can help you might find it good to buy the Barrington book ....that is a bible for the bikes...will save you countless hours of frustration... I have been riding and working on BMW bikes most of my life and I still go to that book for information...

Plus it is frustrating to have a bike that is fighting you... they do like to run, just sometimes if they are not adjusted properly they can be worse than a step child... or so I have been told...

Let us know where you are so we can help..... none of us mind, our community is so small we all are friends...

Joel Rapose
Chester Ca.

Thanks Joel, I am located in Rapid City, SD I appreciate the advice I just want to get this starting routine figured out. Right now I don't even want to take the bike anywhere for fear of not being able to get it started again and get home. I am not comfortable with it or trust it yet. hopefully I can get it nailed down.

jrapose
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My first bike did the exact same thing

Only it was a miserable starting Triumph Cub.... always started cold easily, but you could kick for hours when it was hot....I was 16 and did not know anyone who even owned a motorcycle....so I just fought it...always had to push it when it was hot...luckily it had a bad habit of blowing up...third time it did that my folks suggested that I fix it and trade it in.... got a Honda 250 (1963) and my problems were over... Honda really changed the motorcycle world in those years.

I have owned several R69S bikes and I agree...if they are not just perfect, they can be a pill.... the one I have now needs to be just perfect to start.... no throttle at all... flood the floats... full kick and it roars to life... but if you crack the throttle forget it...nope will not even try....its a procedure that the bike likes.....my R60/2 does not care where the throttle is... it is so happy to run it starts almost on its own..gas pouring out or almost dry as a bone.... but then again the R60/2 has a choke and the R69S does not...You might try taking off the black air cleaner tubes and measuring the position of the slides...they need to be exactally the same and just a perfect distance from the bottom of the bore...(can't remember the distance)... Possibly the slide is too high in the bore.. makes the bike hard to start.

Whatever you do.... don't let anyone tell you that all you need is hotter spark plugs to make it start easier.... years later I realized why my Triumph kept up it's nasty habbit.... got the information from a chain saw store guy... he probably sold shoes a week earlier.
When I finished my Community College Auto Shop education at Shasta College my shop teacher told me to buy a first class Snap-On tool box....he said not to bother buying the tools till I could afford them.... customers buy with there eyes and a professional mechanic with a Sears box does not give the impression of knowing what they are doing... so I did...and it did work... (until someone stole it)... instantly I was looked at as a professional mechanic and not just a kid.

One really nice thing is your not in this alone.... we are a small group and all friends... there must be some /2 guys close to you...don't get frustrated.... we are all happy to help... you would be amazed by some of the phone calls I get... always happy to help someone ..... there are days when the bike just does not want to do what you want... I usually back off and go to the Barrington book and do some reading.... it calms me down and helps me focus on what possibly could be pissing the bike off....

Joel ....heading North in the morning.

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thanks Joel! I guess if

thanks Joel! I guess if there is a silver lining to this no one would ever be able to steal my r60/2 because they woul dneve rbe able to get it started unless they knew the secret code! haha thanks again for the help

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Rapid city, SD USA
Joined: 03/02/2015
Posts: 71
update

ok here is what I have found

1. removed chrome tubes from carbs so I could see what Is happening. ( best thing ever) gives you an idea what the carb is doing.

2. I observed fuel coming out of the holes you see that face the back of the carb when you take the chrome tubes off. still no fuel getting into the cylinder. I removed the spark plugs and dipped in fuel and the bike starts right up. even after cleaning the jets still no fuel getting into cylinders. there is A LOT of suction on the end of the carb so I know the cylinders are pulling air. Also no leaks on intake side of carb. I am seriously to the point of using the bings as a weight for a trot line and trying to adapt to mikunis

schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6954
Before you toss the Bings,

Before you toss the Bings, you should consider a thorough cleaning. I don't remember the function of those holes you speak of, but it sounds like there are some internal passages that are plugged.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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Rapid city, SD USA
Joined: 03/02/2015
Posts: 71
It's very confusing for me.

It's very confusing for me. I have had the carbs off several times and boiled them out, cleaned jets, etc. It will start when its cold but as soon as it heats up it gets hard to start. I am discovering that there is no fuel getting to the spark plug because I can dip the plug in fuel and it will start right up.
Why would the carb act up after the bike is running, also once it is running I have NO problems with power, throttle response, etc. Bike runs great. Its only on hot start up

schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6954
So, even when the bike is

So, even when the bike is hot, as long as it's running, you can run all day long? But it's just trying to restart the bike when hot that this issue crops up?

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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Rapid city, SD USA
Joined: 03/02/2015
Posts: 71
yes correct. I did OHM the

yes correct.

I did OHM the coil and it was 11,000 (and that's with the bike cold) Probably a little weak. It should be around 19K shouldn't it?

schrader7032
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VBMWMO #7032
San Antonio, TX
Joined: 10/27/2006
Posts: 6954
Yes, a little weak...I have

Yes, a little weak...I have notes that suggest 17K is the number, but 19K would be fine, too. Of course, this would have to do nothing with the fuel situation that I can tell.

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Kurt in S.A.
'78 R100/7 '69 R69S '52 R25/2

rusty sprocket
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Rapid city, SD USA
Joined: 03/02/2015
Posts: 71
I am going to try a new coil,

I am going to try a new coil, heck it sure can't hurt anything.

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